8 ms·

Singapore plans to execute man over 1kg of cannabis

75 points by graderjs 3y ago

roschdal 3y ago
[flagged]
- gloryjulio 3y ago
  Just like cigarette and alcohol?
  - sundvor 3y ago
    Alcohol has to be far, far worse for society than cannabis. But, lots of people and countries get very rich making the former - not so much the latter. No effing way alcohol would have been approved for sale now if we'd only just discovered it; it's a poison, attractively packaged as such. NB coming from: I've never tried pot, and I quit a moderate alcohol consumption a few years ago as part of a long hard look at my diet and lifestyle. So much better for it as a middle aged man, it's crazy how beneficial it's been.
dehrmann 3y ago
They do at least a few of these every year, and they warn you before you enter the country: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/SingaporeEmbarkationCard.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Singapor...
- graderjs 3y ago
  I think he was already present in the country, he's actually a Singaporean. There's a lot of ethnic Malay folks, or folks from India in Singapore. Also, this dude has been in jail for nearly 10 years (since 2014). Pretty flimsy case it seems: Tangaraju was arrested in 2014 for drug consumption and for failing to show up for drug tests. While he was in remand, authorities identified Tangaraju for his potential involvement in a case of cannabis trafficking in September 2013. The court ruled that a phone number used to coordinate a drug delivery belonged to Tangaraju, and found him guilty of abetting the trafficking attempt. Tangaraju denied being involved in the transaction. Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapore-cannabis https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapo... I wonder how much of Singapore's drug punishment policy is economic: they want to create a corporate and financial haven, and if they permit too much drug trafficking and international organized crime, the may end up with harsher KYC/AML requirements, that will hamper these businesses. It's probably sold under the harm it can do to "the population", but under the economic theory that's only tangentially true (via reduced trickle down), it's really about the harm done to large banking and services base in Asia if it co-locates with too much high volume illicit business. I also wonder how much racism in Singapore affects this, looking at the list of people executed by Singapore I notice that non-Chinese names outnumber Chinese names by a lot, despite Chinese being the dominant socioeconomic class in Singapore. Singapore death row inmates allege racial bias: https://transformativejusticecollective.org/2021/08/16/investigating-the-presence-of-structural-biases-in-the-criminal-punishment-system/ https://transformativejusticecollective.org/2021/08/16/inves... Another article with additional info about this human's situation: https://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/662908 https://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/662908 And some articles about racism in Singapore: https://www.beenaroundtheglobe.com/racism-singapore/ https://www.beenaroundtheglobe.com/racism-singapore/ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/5/singapore-executions-under-scrutiny-as-more-hanged-for-drugs https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/5/singapore-executions... https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-rears-its-head-in-singapore https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-r... (https://web.archive.org/web/20230422045704/https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-rears-its-head-in-singapore https://web.archive.org/web/20230422045704/https://www.econo...) It would be great if posting something on here could stop this guy getting executed.
  - zarzavat 3y ago
    It’s not to do with money. Part of it is due to the opium wars, where Britain forced China to take their opium via military means. On the Malay side it is due to Islamic prohibitions on drugs. Arab countries also have extremely harsh drug laws. And in modern times there’s just a desire to not end up like the Americas.
    - graderjs 3y ago
      I think this makes it about Malay, when they're not in charge (or don't feel themselves to be). Most of the executed are ethnic Malay. It's more a Chinese run city-state. I think it's very much about money. Islamic prohibitions and Arab countries have extremely harsh drug laws is not universal: hashish is culture in many Arab and Islamic places, isn't it?
      - zarzavat 3y ago
        The opium wars are a Chinese cultural memory. Islamic prohibitions are Malay. Between them there’s a strong consensus for these kinds of laws. When I said “Arabs” I had gulf Arabs in mind. UAE is notorious for jailing hapless travelers for the possession of poppy seed bread rolls. But it’s true that there is no universal Arab culture, and certain substances are licit in certain Arab countries. For example qaat in Yemen.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        graderjs 3y ago
        Is that how it’s justified? Maybe to the populations. How far back is Malaysia Islamic? If Chinese are so against the drug trade because of the opium wars why is so much fentanyl manufactured in China and sent to the United States? Also, I don’t think recreational drug use is exactly uncommon on the mainland. And poppyseeds in UAE? Wow I didn’t know that.
  - knodi 3y ago
- ttul 3y ago
  There is a convenient garbage can as you exit the airplane; I think it’s intended to give people one last chance to contemplate the risk.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
impetus21 3y ago
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvPGTO6L8qg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvPGTO6L8qg
nashashmi 3y ago
Terrible article written to create false sympathy for the person, and play distrust on the govt. I wonder if this is a Taiwan tactic to diminish influence of Singapore govt. the bit that really struck me is the line that says this is against international law. Edit: death penalty for smuggling is law in 33 countries. European nations do not have capital punishment at all.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Taipei Times is not state owned so their actions shouldn't be conflated with that of the government. And the international law for smuggling is not the death penalty.
  - psnehanshu 3y ago
    > Taipei Times is not state owned One can never be fully sure.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  > International law for smuggling is death penalty. What are you talking about? Can you please cite the "international law" you are referring to?
- eloisius 3y ago
  Doubt it. Taiwan also has harsh penalties including the death penalty for drug trafficking.
  - nashashmi 3y ago
    Another reason why I think this is mudslinging.
- graderjs 3y ago
  It's not as if sentiment against death pentalty in Singapore is some Taiwanese fabrication: How a Singapore execution set off a wave of protest - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61403692 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61403692 Singapore: UN human rights experts urge immediate death penalty moratorium - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/05/singapore-un-human-rights-experts-urge-immediate-death-penalty-moratorium https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/05/singapore-un... The Movement to Close Singapore’s Death Row - https://www.thenation.com/article/world/singapore-death-penalty/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/singapore-death-pena... Kirsten Han on the Fight to Abolish the Death Penalty in Singapore - https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/kirsten-han-on-the-fight-to-abolish-the-death-penalty-in-singapore/ https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/kirsten-han-on-the-fight-to-...
nibbleshifter 3y ago
[flagged]
- google234123 3y ago
  I think it would be nice if our murder and theft rate was 10x+ lower and drub abuse 20x lower.
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    And that end justifies any means, right?
    - SamReidHughes 3y ago
      Jumping in front of a train also has the death penalty; drug dealing in Singapore is just another form of suicide.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    I would attribute those to USA specific issues i.e. gun proliferation rather than anything Singapore is uniquely doing to combat them. If you look at overall crime rate Singapore is hardly a shining example: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Singapore is more aggressive about finding crime, catching criminals, and has a lower bar for what is considered a crime. Those would also affect their crime rate.
    - LudwigNagasena 3y ago
      That’s common rhetoric. If something is good in the US, it is because of democracy. If something is bad in Singapore, it is because of totalitarianism. If something is bad in the US or good in Singapore, it is because of their specific “non-political” policies.
LopRabbit 3y ago
[flagged]
DantesKite 3y ago
> The UN says that the death penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrent globally and is incompatible with international human rights law, which only permits capital punishment for the most serious crimes. I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. On the other hand, this seems like a fairly excessive punishment given the safety and relative pharmaceutical use of marijuana. On the other other hand, Singapore is pretty clear about the law and death sentence that will follow. You really have to be a special kind of dunce to violate that law (even if people think it’s excessive). May God have mercy on that man’s soul, because Singapore certainly won’t.
- duxup 3y ago
  > I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis Are those two connected?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  > I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. Please explain your thought process here.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore, so they must be doing something right. At least that's what the GP means I think.
    - p-e-w 3y ago
      > Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore Is it? Is there any reliable data that demonstrates this? By which I mean, data that isn't (directly or indirectly) controlled by the same government that wants to kill people for possessing drugs, and thus has a vested interest in justifying that policy.
      - mardifoufs 3y ago
waihtis 3y ago
The true test of whether Singapore provides a sustainable model for society is to see how functional your average western tier 1 city will be in 50 years and how Singapore will be. It's not a stretch to predict that Singapore will remain a functional, clean society while many western counterparts will devolve into unhabitable messes. It is unfortunate human beings still need a level of authoritarianism to flourish but that may be the case.
graderjs 3y ago
It's worth noting that they are going to hang this human, because a phone number maybe owned by him, had a call with drug traffickers. The call history with drug traffickers was from months before his arrest on "drug consumption", where while in remand the police "made the connection" to the previous crime. He denied any involvement, but a court ruled that he owned the phone number. So.... Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapore-cannabis https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapo... What if he dialed the wrong number? What if it wasn't actually his phone, but was a shared phone among friends or family members (not uncommon in people without stacks of money)? What if he lost his phone or it was stolen? What if someone else had the number before him?
- blueyoda 3y ago
  He claims to have lost his phone, but at the same time, he never reported it as stolen. Also, "The Independent reported that Tangaraju had a prior arrest record in another drug use case, and that he was required to submit himself to regular urine tests. He had missed a test and was on his way to report to the police when he arrested." Seems rather suspicious. Nonetheless, the fact that he doesn't have a lawyer is extremely concerning from a human rights perspective.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - graderjs 3y ago
    If this happened to you: you lost your phone (it was stolen), but you didn't report it (because when someone stole it you were on a date with a colleague from work, and didn't want your husband to know), and then it was used for drug trafficking and then you were sentenced to death in Singapore, would you still be saying that your own behavior "seems rather suspicious"? Don't you think the police case seems rather suspicious, right?
    - blueyoda 3y ago
      > "because when someone stole it you were on a date with a colleague from work, and didn't want your husband to know" I don't understand the logic here. Why not report it after the date? A rather strange number of coincidences... having a "prior arrest record in another drug use case" and not reporting his phone being stolen, only to be arrested for a drug event again. Nevertheless, I would never cheat on my spouse, so I would not be in such a situation to begin with. Regardless, it is possible that we are not really hearing his side of the story properly. He doesn't even have a lawyer, which is extremely concerning. Regardless of whether or not he is guilty, he deserves the best defense possible.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
b215826 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...
blueyoda 3y ago
> “He was also questioned by the police without legal counsel, and said that he was denied a Tamil interpreter.” That is concerning. Regardless of whether or not you think someone is guilty, they still deserve the best possible defense. However, one thing I am genuinely curious about is why people condemn Singapore's solution in regards to substance smugglers. The state of their nation suggests that their solution works well. Why should society condone the distribution of substances that ruin lives? I've seen people argue that capital punishment is unethical in this case. From the perspective of potential false-positive convictions, that is definitely a valid point. However, when people argue that the current punishment for such crime is too much, I must ask: what about the countless addicted people who lose their lives to drugs every year? Don't they deserve to live? Why does a smuggler who knowingly distributes a substance that destroys lives deserve sympathy? How can one expect such a menace to be "rehabilitated" in prison?
- graderjs 3y ago
  China's anti-covid policy "worked" as well. One way to fix the homeless "problem" in San Francisco would be to execute all the vagrants. This would also "work". But if it really "worked"--why would there still consistently be prosecutions and executions of dealers, traffickers, etc? If Singapore's strategy really worked, it would have stopped this. Yet it didn't. So does it work? The humanity of the addict that drives you to want to save her in the face of her own choices to resist being saved, is the same humanity of the dealer that you ignore in your drive to want to kill her. In another way, are they also not jointly responsible? Without addicts there would be no dealers. Without dealers, no addicts. If we're going to kill all dealers, why not all addicts, too? In a more sophisticated way, isn't drug policy the real one responsible for the harm? If drugs were not "illegal", cartels would not exist, and all the violence from them would not exist. If drugs were not illegal, purity could be controlled, and so could dosage, and so could price, and not only would illicit market be far smaller, but less lives would be ruined through drug debt, disease, social exclusion, and, jail. Prosecutions snip the leaves, but not the trunk or root. The leaves are often driven to crime by the same forces that drive people to be addicts. The standard of personal responsibility should be equally applied: people choose to become addicts, and they choose to commit crimes. In both cases, there are other forces at work, but we must not treat one class of people as agent-free helpless fake victims, and others as planful, deliberate, fully-responsible perpetrators. We must apply responsibility equally to all, for their choices and situations. I think the "moral panic" argument to justify lynching is a way to hack human psychology and has always been effective (heretics, witches, slaves, and now...I guess...drug mules?). Put it another way: what if it was your sister, who was visiting you in Singapore, but she didn't speak the local language, and the eSIM she bought at the airport turned out to have been used by drug traffickers a few months before. Then out with friends, someone spikes her drinks, her friends lost her, and police later find her wandering the street in a confused state, and arrest her for "drug consumption". While detained, she refuses drug tests, and while checking her phone, they discover the "her involvement". Despite the fact that she just landed here, a court rules that the phone number belongs to her, and she is sentenced to death for "her part" in the months-prior drug trafficking. Are you still asking "what about the countless addicted people who lose their lives to drugs every year? how can such a menace be rehabilitated" and saying "The state of their nation suggests that their solution works well." It's an exaggeration, but how plausible is it? How plausible is the guilt of the guy they will execute? What if not your sister, but you? Someone switches bags with you at the airport, in a part of the airport where no cameras are...you have no proof, and you are sentenced to death for being "such a menace"? Do you still feel "their solution works well?" I mean, did you deserve to die for something else and this is what got you? I think it doesn't work, and even if the questionable "war on drugs" was really a good goal (and not one that ended up lining the pockets of both 'sides', while denying people access to a lot of safe mood modifiers), then a better LE strategy would be executing the leadership of the organization. Put it another way: in human trafficking cases, do we arrest the leaves (the girls and boys who are trafficked for sex or slave labor), or do we arrest the kingpins? The socioeconomic things driving those kids to become criminals are very similar for drugs, and for sex / slave labor. Finally, does the prosecution and sentencing of many mainly black men in USA for small drug crimes (another example of a solution whose punishment seems exaggeratedly incommensurate with the crime), "work well"? Or is the problem that it was "not tough enough" -- we should have been executing people for this stuff...? :(
kawait 3y ago
3旧、22,#、、/1
doomleika 3y ago
You could have Singapore, or you could be Bob Lee.

75 points by graderjs 3y ago

roschdal 3y ago

[flagged]

gloryjulio 3y ago
Just like cigarette and alcohol?
- sundvor 3y ago
  Alcohol has to be far, far worse for society than cannabis. But, lots of people and countries get very rich making the former - not so much the latter. No effing way alcohol would have been approved for sale now if we'd only just discovered it; it's a poison, attractively packaged as such. NB coming from: I've never tried pot, and I quit a moderate alcohol consumption a few years ago as part of a long hard look at my diet and lifestyle. So much better for it as a middle aged man, it's crazy how beneficial it's been.

dehrmann 3y ago

They do at least a few of these every year, and they warn you before you enter the country: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/SingaporeEmbarkationCard.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Singapor...

graderjs 3y ago
I think he was already present in the country, he's actually a Singaporean. There's a lot of ethnic Malay folks, or folks from India in Singapore. Also, this dude has been in jail for nearly 10 years (since 2014). Pretty flimsy case it seems: Tangaraju was arrested in 2014 for drug consumption and for failing to show up for drug tests. While he was in remand, authorities identified Tangaraju for his potential involvement in a case of cannabis trafficking in September 2013. The court ruled that a phone number used to coordinate a drug delivery belonged to Tangaraju, and found him guilty of abetting the trafficking attempt. Tangaraju denied being involved in the transaction. Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapore-cannabis https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapo... I wonder how much of Singapore's drug punishment policy is economic: they want to create a corporate and financial haven, and if they permit too much drug trafficking and international organized crime, the may end up with harsher KYC/AML requirements, that will hamper these businesses. It's probably sold under the harm it can do to "the population", but under the economic theory that's only tangentially true (via reduced trickle down), it's really about the harm done to large banking and services base in Asia if it co-locates with too much high volume illicit business. I also wonder how much racism in Singapore affects this, looking at the list of people executed by Singapore I notice that non-Chinese names outnumber Chinese names by a lot, despite Chinese being the dominant socioeconomic class in Singapore. Singapore death row inmates allege racial bias: https://transformativejusticecollective.org/2021/08/16/investigating-the-presence-of-structural-biases-in-the-criminal-punishment-system/ https://transformativejusticecollective.org/2021/08/16/inves... Another article with additional info about this human's situation: https://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/662908 https://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/662908 And some articles about racism in Singapore: https://www.beenaroundtheglobe.com/racism-singapore/ https://www.beenaroundtheglobe.com/racism-singapore/ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/5/singapore-executions-under-scrutiny-as-more-hanged-for-drugs https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/5/singapore-executions... https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-rears-its-head-in-singapore https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-r... (https://web.archive.org/web/20230422045704/https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/29/racial-prejudice-rears-its-head-in-singapore https://web.archive.org/web/20230422045704/https://www.econo...) It would be great if posting something on here could stop this guy getting executed.
- zarzavat 3y ago
  It’s not to do with money. Part of it is due to the opium wars, where Britain forced China to take their opium via military means. On the Malay side it is due to Islamic prohibitions on drugs. Arab countries also have extremely harsh drug laws. And in modern times there’s just a desire to not end up like the Americas.
  - graderjs 3y ago
    I think this makes it about Malay, when they're not in charge (or don't feel themselves to be). Most of the executed are ethnic Malay. It's more a Chinese run city-state. I think it's very much about money. Islamic prohibitions and Arab countries have extremely harsh drug laws is not universal: hashish is culture in many Arab and Islamic places, isn't it?
    - zarzavat 3y ago
      The opium wars are a Chinese cultural memory. Islamic prohibitions are Malay. Between them there’s a strong consensus for these kinds of laws. When I said “Arabs” I had gulf Arabs in mind. UAE is notorious for jailing hapless travelers for the possession of poppy seed bread rolls. But it’s true that there is no universal Arab culture, and certain substances are licit in certain Arab countries. For example qaat in Yemen.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - graderjs 3y ago
        Is that how it’s justified? Maybe to the populations. How far back is Malaysia Islamic? If Chinese are so against the drug trade because of the opium wars why is so much fentanyl manufactured in China and sent to the United States? Also, I don’t think recreational drug use is exactly uncommon on the mainland. And poppyseeds in UAE? Wow I didn’t know that.
- knodi 3y ago
ttul 3y ago
There is a convenient garbage can as you exit the airplane; I think it’s intended to give people one last chance to contemplate the risk.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

impetus21 3y ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvPGTO6L8qg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IvPGTO6L8qg

nashashmi 3y ago

Terrible article written to create false sympathy for the person, and play distrust on the govt. I wonder if this is a Taiwan tactic to diminish influence of Singapore govt. the bit that really struck me is the line that says this is against international law. Edit: death penalty for smuggling is law in 33 countries. European nations do not have capital punishment at all.

threeseed 3y ago
Taipei Times is not state owned so their actions shouldn't be conflated with that of the government. And the international law for smuggling is not the death penalty.
- psnehanshu 3y ago
  > Taipei Times is not state owned One can never be fully sure.
p-e-w 3y ago
> International law for smuggling is death penalty. What are you talking about? Can you please cite the "international law" you are referring to?
eloisius 3y ago
Doubt it. Taiwan also has harsh penalties including the death penalty for drug trafficking.
- nashashmi 3y ago
  Another reason why I think this is mudslinging.
graderjs 3y ago
It's not as if sentiment against death pentalty in Singapore is some Taiwanese fabrication: How a Singapore execution set off a wave of protest - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61403692 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61403692 Singapore: UN human rights experts urge immediate death penalty moratorium - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/05/singapore-un-human-rights-experts-urge-immediate-death-penalty-moratorium https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/05/singapore-un... The Movement to Close Singapore’s Death Row - https://www.thenation.com/article/world/singapore-death-penalty/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/singapore-death-pena... Kirsten Han on the Fight to Abolish the Death Penalty in Singapore - https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/kirsten-han-on-the-fight-to-abolish-the-death-penalty-in-singapore/ https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/kirsten-han-on-the-fight-to-...

nibbleshifter 3y ago

[flagged]

google234123 3y ago
I think it would be nice if our murder and theft rate was 10x+ lower and drub abuse 20x lower.
- p-e-w 3y ago
  And that end justifies any means, right?
  - SamReidHughes 3y ago
    Jumping in front of a train also has the death penalty; drug dealing in Singapore is just another form of suicide.
- threeseed 3y ago
  I would attribute those to USA specific issues i.e. gun proliferation rather than anything Singapore is uniquely doing to combat them. If you look at overall crime rate Singapore is hardly a shining example: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rat...
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Singapore is more aggressive about finding crime, catching criminals, and has a lower bar for what is considered a crime. Those would also affect their crime rate.
  - LudwigNagasena 3y ago
    That’s common rhetoric. If something is good in the US, it is because of democracy. If something is bad in Singapore, it is because of totalitarianism. If something is bad in the US or good in Singapore, it is because of their specific “non-political” policies.

LopRabbit 3y ago

[flagged]

DantesKite 3y ago

> The UN says that the death penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrent globally and is incompatible with international human rights law, which only permits capital punishment for the most serious crimes. I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. On the other hand, this seems like a fairly excessive punishment given the safety and relative pharmaceutical use of marijuana. On the other other hand, Singapore is pretty clear about the law and death sentence that will follow. You really have to be a special kind of dunce to violate that law (even if people think it’s excessive). May God have mercy on that man’s soul, because Singapore certainly won’t.

duxup 3y ago
> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis Are those two connected?
aaomidi 3y ago
> I don’t know it seems to be working in Singapore. They don’t have a fentanyl drug crisis. Please explain your thought process here.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore, so they must be doing something right. At least that's what the GP means I think.
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    > Drug abuse is much less of a problem in Singapore Is it? Is there any reliable data that demonstrates this? By which I mean, data that isn't (directly or indirectly) controlled by the same government that wants to kill people for possessing drugs, and thus has a vested interest in justifying that policy.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago

waihtis 3y ago

The true test of whether Singapore provides a sustainable model for society is to see how functional your average western tier 1 city will be in 50 years and how Singapore will be. It's not a stretch to predict that Singapore will remain a functional, clean society while many western counterparts will devolve into unhabitable messes. It is unfortunate human beings still need a level of authoritarianism to flourish but that may be the case.

graderjs 3y ago

It's worth noting that they are going to hang this human, because a phone number maybe owned by him, had a call with drug traffickers. The call history with drug traffickers was from months before his arrest on "drug consumption", where while in remand the police "made the connection" to the previous crime. He denied any involvement, but a court ruled that he owned the phone number. So.... Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapore-cannabis https://www.vice.com/en/article/88xn7b/death-penalty-singapo... What if he dialed the wrong number? What if it wasn't actually his phone, but was a shared phone among friends or family members (not uncommon in people without stacks of money)? What if he lost his phone or it was stolen? What if someone else had the number before him?

blueyoda 3y ago
He claims to have lost his phone, but at the same time, he never reported it as stolen. Also, "The Independent reported that Tangaraju had a prior arrest record in another drug use case, and that he was required to submit himself to regular urine tests. He had missed a test and was on his way to report to the police when he arrested." Seems rather suspicious. Nonetheless, the fact that he doesn't have a lawyer is extremely concerning from a human rights perspective.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- graderjs 3y ago
  If this happened to you: you lost your phone (it was stolen), but you didn't report it (because when someone stole it you were on a date with a colleague from work, and didn't want your husband to know), and then it was used for drug trafficking and then you were sentenced to death in Singapore, would you still be saying that your own behavior "seems rather suspicious"? Don't you think the police case seems rather suspicious, right?
  - blueyoda 3y ago
    > "because when someone stole it you were on a date with a colleague from work, and didn't want your husband to know" I don't understand the logic here. Why not report it after the date? A rather strange number of coincidences... having a "prior arrest record in another drug use case" and not reporting his phone being stolen, only to be arrested for a drug event again. Nevertheless, I would never cheat on my spouse, so I would not be in such a situation to begin with. Regardless, it is possible that we are not really hearing his side of the story properly. He doesn't even have a lawyer, which is extremely concerning. Regardless of whether or not he is guilty, he deserves the best defense possible.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

b215826 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...

blueyoda 3y ago

> “He was also questioned by the police without legal counsel, and said that he was denied a Tamil interpreter.” That is concerning. Regardless of whether or not you think someone is guilty, they still deserve the best possible defense. However, one thing I am genuinely curious about is why people condemn Singapore's solution in regards to substance smugglers. The state of their nation suggests that their solution works well. Why should society condone the distribution of substances that ruin lives? I've seen people argue that capital punishment is unethical in this case. From the perspective of potential false-positive convictions, that is definitely a valid point. However, when people argue that the current punishment for such crime is too much, I must ask: what about the countless addicted people who lose their lives to drugs every year? Don't they deserve to live? Why does a smuggler who knowingly distributes a substance that destroys lives deserve sympathy? How can one expect such a menace to be "rehabilitated" in prison?

graderjs 3y ago
China's anti-covid policy "worked" as well. One way to fix the homeless "problem" in San Francisco would be to execute all the vagrants. This would also "work". But if it really "worked"--why would there still consistently be prosecutions and executions of dealers, traffickers, etc? If Singapore's strategy really worked, it would have stopped this. Yet it didn't. So does it work? The humanity of the addict that drives you to want to save her in the face of her own choices to resist being saved, is the same humanity of the dealer that you ignore in your drive to want to kill her. In another way, are they also not jointly responsible? Without addicts there would be no dealers. Without dealers, no addicts. If we're going to kill all dealers, why not all addicts, too? In a more sophisticated way, isn't drug policy the real one responsible for the harm? If drugs were not "illegal", cartels would not exist, and all the violence from them would not exist. If drugs were not illegal, purity could be controlled, and so could dosage, and so could price, and not only would illicit market be far smaller, but less lives would be ruined through drug debt, disease, social exclusion, and, jail. Prosecutions snip the leaves, but not the trunk or root. The leaves are often driven to crime by the same forces that drive people to be addicts. The standard of personal responsibility should be equally applied: people choose to become addicts, and they choose to commit crimes. In both cases, there are other forces at work, but we must not treat one class of people as agent-free helpless fake victims, and others as planful, deliberate, fully-responsible perpetrators. We must apply responsibility equally to all, for their choices and situations. I think the "moral panic" argument to justify lynching is a way to hack human psychology and has always been effective (heretics, witches, slaves, and now...I guess...drug mules?). Put it another way: what if it was your sister, who was visiting you in Singapore, but she didn't speak the local language, and the eSIM she bought at the airport turned out to have been used by drug traffickers a few months before. Then out with friends, someone spikes her drinks, her friends lost her, and police later find her wandering the street in a confused state, and arrest her for "drug consumption". While detained, she refuses drug tests, and while checking her phone, they discover the "her involvement". Despite the fact that she just landed here, a court rules that the phone number belongs to her, and she is sentenced to death for "her part" in the months-prior drug trafficking. Are you still asking "what about the countless addicted people who lose their lives to drugs every year? how can such a menace be rehabilitated" and saying "The state of their nation suggests that their solution works well." It's an exaggeration, but how plausible is it? How plausible is the guilt of the guy they will execute? What if not your sister, but you? Someone switches bags with you at the airport, in a part of the airport where no cameras are...you have no proof, and you are sentenced to death for being "such a menace"? Do you still feel "their solution works well?" I mean, did you deserve to die for something else and this is what got you? I think it doesn't work, and even if the questionable "war on drugs" was really a good goal (and not one that ended up lining the pockets of both 'sides', while denying people access to a lot of safe mood modifiers), then a better LE strategy would be executing the leadership of the organization. Put it another way: in human trafficking cases, do we arrest the leaves (the girls and boys who are trafficked for sex or slave labor), or do we arrest the kingpins? The socioeconomic things driving those kids to become criminals are very similar for drugs, and for sex / slave labor. Finally, does the prosecution and sentencing of many mainly black men in USA for small drug crimes (another example of a solution whose punishment seems exaggeratedly incommensurate with the crime), "work well"? Or is the problem that it was "not tough enough" -- we should have been executing people for this stuff...? :(

kawait 3y ago

3旧、22,#、、/1

doomleika 3y ago

You could have Singapore, or you could be Bob Lee.