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On the other hand, the number of outside companies I trust to have access to all that data is exactly zero. Even Apple themselves are only trustworthy because t

On the other hand, the number of outside companies I trust to have access to all that data is exactly zero. Even Apple themselves are only trustworthy because their core business is selling expensive devices to the user, rather than selling the user to advertisers.

paxys 4y ago
I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be perfectly happy with an iPhone without an App Store or any third party apps, and there's nothing stopping them from using it in such a way today. For others, it's important to have the ability to use their device in ways that aren't 100% controlled by a single company. It's about having a choice and having alternate options. Large platform providers going "we know what is good for you" has been a major setback for personal computing over the last decade or two, and it's sad that so many consumers are enthusiastically accepting it as the new norm.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Is it fair to say that these people can buy a different product? Otherwise it sounds like you want iOS, and want Apple to put in the effort to make a product for you regardless of how that affects their margins, scope, public image, security, etc. If enough people are on your side, Apple will sell fewer iPhones, and the competitor that has these desired features will come out on top.
  - paxys 4y ago
    "You can't complain about anything a company does because the free market will take care of it" is a very tired argument, and basically never true. Free market economics disproportionately helps large corporations over the end consumer. And specifically in the smartphone market, Google is always close behind in following the precedent set by Apple in implementing software restrictions. How does one protest then?
    - charcircuit 4y ago
      >How does one protest then? Android is open source. You don't have to be a large player to make a phone with a custom OS. The hardest part will not having access to Google's Play ecosystem if you modify the OS too much.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    This assumes that 100% of iPhone and iPad customers understand the totality of the consequences of buying Apple's hardware. Most people do not understand the intricacies of the iOS and App Store app distribution model, and most people do not buy Apple hardware because of it. All users, including those users, deserve the freedom to own the hardware they buy and run what they want on it.
    - geodel 4y ago
      Do most of the android users / Windows users / Cloud users / Linux users understand the totality of consequences of their choices? I highly doubt that. It may come as surprise but to lot of people/institutions getting something done is far more valuable than totally owning something.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        > Do most of the android users / Windows users / Cloud users / Linux users understand the totality of consequences of their choices? I highly doubt that. No, and I never suggested they did. > It may come as surprise but to lot of people/institutions getting something done is far more valuable than totally owning something. Doing what you want with the stuff you bought is not orthogonal to "getting something done".
    - josephd79 4y ago
      I agree all users should be able to own the hardware and do what you want to it but most people do not care. They’ve been conditioned.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Competition only works in well-defined markets. There is basically no competition in the mobile OS department, as it’s a winner(s) takes it all category, not even Microsoft could enter it, and not for lack of money/trying. 2 is a magic number, it is simply not gonna happen that devs will develop for more than 2 platforms. So yes, I want ios to put in the effort and I want to force them by the government. I don’t see how is it bad, should I feel bad for a private entity for benefitting a huge number of its customers?
benguild 4y ago
It’s definitely not zero. The data should just stay on device, which is currently a flaw of the data and privacy protections offered in most smartphone applications.
WirelessGigabit 4y ago
And that is totally your right. But the fact that today I still cannot use a different web-browser engine than the iOS one is appalling. I cannot change the Photos app for an app that offers native integration with my Synology. I am forced to go through iCloud.
- meepmorp 4y ago
  Buy another phone. That sounds incredibly glib, but a lot of Apple users feel this way. It's fine and I don't give a shit how the iPhone works by default because it works for me. It sounds like you're not the target market - go get an android and be happy. The iPhone works the way it does, and if that's a pain for you, don't use a fucking iPhone. Imagine people who love driving stick pitching a fucking bitch fit because you can't install a clutch on the automatic car you bought. Not everything in life works or will ever work exactly the way you like.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    The market isn't working. There is no alternative.
  - 76SlashDolphin 4y ago
    But it's very infuriating because the iPhone does some things so right that nobody can replicate. The quality of the hardware, an actual small screen option (the iPhone 13 mini is the perfect size), magsafe is neat, etc. If I could put Android on my 13 mini I would but I have to live with iOS's issues because I like the hardware so much.
    - user_named 4y ago
      The 13 mini is too small.
      - layer8 4y ago
        It’s still too large and too heavy, I’d prefer the 5 size and weight.
thomasahle 4y ago
Apple is doubling down pretty hard on advertising though. It made nearly 4 billion on ads last year, and in general services are now 25% of their total revenue. https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddoty/2023/02/08/apple-the-story-behind-its-new-ad-offerings-to-retailers-restaurants-hotels-other-location-based-businesses/?sh=53573c8e4701 https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddoty/2023/02/08/apple-the-...
- gls2ro 4y ago
  I admit I skimmed the article and I think the concrete change apple did was this right: > Apple Business Connect lets businesses create and update their information in the cards that represent them in apps and services that only Apple controls, like Apple Maps, Wallet, Messages, and in search results via Siri or Spotlight. Updates business owners make to their cards will then propagate to all these places. That incredible access to the right place at the right time for 1.8 billion active Apple devices has never been available before. It seems to me that the rest of the article is just a kind of prediction about what Apple could do. Underline _could_ and that is different than doing or wanting.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  But still, Apple’s ads are only in the News app and in paid placements in their App stores. It’s not like they have a widespread add platform like Google and Amazon.
rat9988 4y ago
You did fall for the brand and marketing trap though. Why would Apple make such an app? They are investing hard in advertising.
- drcongo 4y ago
  I keep hearing this, yet I've never seen an ad on my iPhone.
  - latexr 4y ago
    The App Store is riddled with ads; the Music App is a giant ad for their music streaming service; there are ads in the Settings app!¹ Maps will reportedly get them too.² I too have mostly escaped ads on iOS, but I think that’s a combination of not living in the US, never opening the App Store, and a few other factors. I’m under no illusion that will last forever. Tim Cook must be salivating with ideas. ¹ https://daringfireball.net/2023/04/ios_adware https://daringfireball.net/2023/04/ios_adware ² https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/21/ads-coming-to-apple-maps-report/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/21/ads-coming-to-apple-map...
    - josephd79 4y ago
      Where have you seen ads in the settings app? I must be immune to this stuff. I do not notice ads period.
      - latexr 4y ago
        > Where have you seen ads in the settings app? It’s explicitly linked in my post. In the article they talk about it and have a link to a screenshot. Search for: > I’ve noticed an ad in Settings on my iPhone, in the iCloud section at the very top of the first screen
      - Tagbert 4y ago
        Someone was saying that in the Storage section of Settings, when you run low on storage, there is a prompt to enable iCloud storage and offload some content to the cloud. They are calling that an Ad.
latexr 4y ago
> their core business is selling expensive devices to the user Only until Tim Cook reverses that trend. “Services” revenue has been growing like crazy and will continue to do so as Apple pursues ever more aggressive strategies to shove ads in our faces. Steve Jobs’ last mistake was appointing as CEO someone who cares about money this much over good products. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/02/apple-services-revenue-hit-an-all-time-high-of-20-billion https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/02/apple-services-re...
- jutrewag 4y ago
  Apple still makes great products.
- vikramkr 4y ago
  I mean - why not both? Their products have been on a hot streak recently - idk what other big tech company compares in terms of the quality of the core products they sell. And they've also been making a ton of money. That hasn't exactly gotten in the way of accomplishments like apple silicon and the apple watch

paxys 4y ago

I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be perfectly happy with an iPhone without an App Store or any third party apps, and there's nothing stopping them from using it in such a way today. For others, it's important to have the ability to use their device in ways that aren't 100% controlled by a single company. It's about having a choice and having alternate options. Large platform providers going "we know what is good for you" has been a major setback for personal computing over the last decade or two, and it's sad that so many consumers are enthusiastically accepting it as the new norm.

judge2020 4y ago
Is it fair to say that these people can buy a different product? Otherwise it sounds like you want iOS, and want Apple to put in the effort to make a product for you regardless of how that affects their margins, scope, public image, security, etc. If enough people are on your side, Apple will sell fewer iPhones, and the competitor that has these desired features will come out on top.
- paxys 4y ago
  "You can't complain about anything a company does because the free market will take care of it" is a very tired argument, and basically never true. Free market economics disproportionately helps large corporations over the end consumer. And specifically in the smartphone market, Google is always close behind in following the precedent set by Apple in implementing software restrictions. How does one protest then?
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    >How does one protest then? Android is open source. You don't have to be a large player to make a phone with a custom OS. The hardest part will not having access to Google's Play ecosystem if you modify the OS too much.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  This assumes that 100% of iPhone and iPad customers understand the totality of the consequences of buying Apple's hardware. Most people do not understand the intricacies of the iOS and App Store app distribution model, and most people do not buy Apple hardware because of it. All users, including those users, deserve the freedom to own the hardware they buy and run what they want on it.
  - geodel 4y ago
    Do most of the android users / Windows users / Cloud users / Linux users understand the totality of consequences of their choices? I highly doubt that. It may come as surprise but to lot of people/institutions getting something done is far more valuable than totally owning something.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      > Do most of the android users / Windows users / Cloud users / Linux users understand the totality of consequences of their choices? I highly doubt that. No, and I never suggested they did. > It may come as surprise but to lot of people/institutions getting something done is far more valuable than totally owning something. Doing what you want with the stuff you bought is not orthogonal to "getting something done".
  - josephd79 4y ago
    I agree all users should be able to own the hardware and do what you want to it but most people do not care. They’ve been conditioned.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Competition only works in well-defined markets. There is basically no competition in the mobile OS department, as it’s a winner(s) takes it all category, not even Microsoft could enter it, and not for lack of money/trying. 2 is a magic number, it is simply not gonna happen that devs will develop for more than 2 platforms. So yes, I want ios to put in the effort and I want to force them by the government. I don’t see how is it bad, should I feel bad for a private entity for benefitting a huge number of its customers?

benguild 4y ago

It’s definitely not zero. The data should just stay on device, which is currently a flaw of the data and privacy protections offered in most smartphone applications.

WirelessGigabit 4y ago

And that is totally your right. But the fact that today I still cannot use a different web-browser engine than the iOS one is appalling. I cannot change the Photos app for an app that offers native integration with my Synology. I am forced to go through iCloud.

meepmorp 4y ago
Buy another phone. That sounds incredibly glib, but a lot of Apple users feel this way. It's fine and I don't give a shit how the iPhone works by default because it works for me. It sounds like you're not the target market - go get an android and be happy. The iPhone works the way it does, and if that's a pain for you, don't use a fucking iPhone. Imagine people who love driving stick pitching a fucking bitch fit because you can't install a clutch on the automatic car you bought. Not everything in life works or will ever work exactly the way you like.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  The market isn't working. There is no alternative.
- 76SlashDolphin 4y ago
  But it's very infuriating because the iPhone does some things so right that nobody can replicate. The quality of the hardware, an actual small screen option (the iPhone 13 mini is the perfect size), magsafe is neat, etc. If I could put Android on my 13 mini I would but I have to live with iOS's issues because I like the hardware so much.
  - user_named 4y ago
    The 13 mini is too small.
    - layer8 4y ago
      It’s still too large and too heavy, I’d prefer the 5 size and weight.

thomasahle 4y ago

Apple is doubling down pretty hard on advertising though. It made nearly 4 billion on ads last year, and in general services are now 25% of their total revenue. https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddoty/2023/02/08/apple-the-story-behind-its-new-ad-offerings-to-retailers-restaurants-hotels-other-location-based-businesses/?sh=53573c8e4701 https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddoty/2023/02/08/apple-the-...

gls2ro 4y ago
I admit I skimmed the article and I think the concrete change apple did was this right: > Apple Business Connect lets businesses create and update their information in the cards that represent them in apps and services that only Apple controls, like Apple Maps, Wallet, Messages, and in search results via Siri or Spotlight. Updates business owners make to their cards will then propagate to all these places. That incredible access to the right place at the right time for 1.8 billion active Apple devices has never been available before. It seems to me that the rest of the article is just a kind of prediction about what Apple could do. Underline _could_ and that is different than doing or wanting.
Tagbert 4y ago
But still, Apple’s ads are only in the News app and in paid placements in their App stores. It’s not like they have a widespread add platform like Google and Amazon.

rat9988 4y ago

You did fall for the brand and marketing trap though. Why would Apple make such an app? They are investing hard in advertising.

drcongo 4y ago
I keep hearing this, yet I've never seen an ad on my iPhone.
- latexr 4y ago
  The App Store is riddled with ads; the Music App is a giant ad for their music streaming service; there are ads in the Settings app!¹ Maps will reportedly get them too.² I too have mostly escaped ads on iOS, but I think that’s a combination of not living in the US, never opening the App Store, and a few other factors. I’m under no illusion that will last forever. Tim Cook must be salivating with ideas. ¹ https://daringfireball.net/2023/04/ios_adware https://daringfireball.net/2023/04/ios_adware ² https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/21/ads-coming-to-apple-maps-report/ https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/21/ads-coming-to-apple-map...
  - josephd79 4y ago
    Where have you seen ads in the settings app? I must be immune to this stuff. I do not notice ads period.
    - latexr 4y ago
      > Where have you seen ads in the settings app? It’s explicitly linked in my post. In the article they talk about it and have a link to a screenshot. Search for: > I’ve noticed an ad in Settings on my iPhone, in the iCloud section at the very top of the first screen
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      Someone was saying that in the Storage section of Settings, when you run low on storage, there is a prompt to enable iCloud storage and offload some content to the cloud. They are calling that an Ad.

latexr 4y ago

> their core business is selling expensive devices to the user Only until Tim Cook reverses that trend. “Services” revenue has been growing like crazy and will continue to do so as Apple pursues ever more aggressive strategies to shove ads in our faces. Steve Jobs’ last mistake was appointing as CEO someone who cares about money this much over good products. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/02/apple-services-revenue-hit-an-all-time-high-of-20-billion https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/02/apple-services-re...

jutrewag 4y ago
Apple still makes great products.
vikramkr 4y ago
I mean - why not both? Their products have been on a hot streak recently - idk what other big tech company compares in terms of the quality of the core products they sell. And they've also been making a ton of money. That hasn't exactly gotten in the way of accomplishments like apple silicon and the apple watch