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> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in

> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. In many states, if the employer attempts to move the termination date (without compensation), they will award wages until your resignation date... I've used this twice, and in both cases, I was sent home, but HR told the manager that any severance would start after my resignation date which in one case led to a really awkward call when my manager tried to get me to come back for a month after having me pack up my desk and leave.

morepork 4y ago
Isn't that just normal? How do people normally resign? I've always written up a letter saying my last day will be x
cassac 4y ago
I don’t know they’d have to award you wages, but the only alternative to that would be firing you. Some might try to do that out of spite but it would be far worse for them than you.
- jethro_tell 4y ago
  They'd usually have to prove they fired you with cause not because you said you quit. i.e. if you get caught stealing or are sexually harassing your co-workers, they can still fire you. They are not however required to let you work. They can revoke access and continue to pay, they can give you a package and terminate you employment. If you don't want to take the package, they can just walk you out of the building and terminate your employment two weeks later.
  - cassac 4y ago
    I’d guess most people, in the US at least, are employed at-will and could be fired right on the spot with no cause given. The problem with that though is you could turn around and file for unemployment which might end up increasing the associated taxes for them with increased headaches. I’d agree that most reasonable HR departments wouldn’t let it go that far but some people like to play dirty irrespective of the costs.
    - namelessoracle 4y ago
      If you put in 2 weeks notice and you get fired on the spot its a slam dunk un employment claim. (assuming you can show that yes you gave notice and you weren't fired first) Most places would rather just pay you the 2 weeks if they really dont want you around than deal with unemployment. Lots of corporate environments firing people takes more than 2 weeks anyways, and you would just be creating extra work for HR for what would seem like no reason.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Unemployment is like $350 - $550/week.
        dghlsakjg 4y ago
        Unemployment in the US is set at the state level. Many states pay significantly higher than $550. WA pays a max of $999 weekly.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Yeah. Last time I looked, MA was like $1k. Just across the border, NH was more like $400. Not a fortune and doesn’t start until vacation payout is done I believe but not nothing for most. You do need to at least go through some motions of job hunting.
        jfarina 4y ago
        Vacation payouts shouldn't be relevant. They are earned while working, so they are compensation from the period when you worked. Unless, of course, you are trying to collect during a period that is scheduled as a vacation? That could create problems.
      - gnicholas 4y ago
        Can you explain what you mean by "slam dunk un employment claim"? Do you mean you'd be able to get unemployment benefits (which come from the state, not your company)? Or do you mean you'd have a claim against the company? As a former lawyer (US-based), my sense is the first is true, and the second is not. As long as they're not canning you for being in a protected class, they can fire at-will employees whenever they want.
masfuerte 4y ago
Dumb question: why would you get severance if you resigned?
- Pet_Ant 4y ago
  Because of resigned effective of a future date. Any termination of employment before then is either a with-cause firing or a layoff where severance is required. Seems like an interesting idea. Give as much notice as possible and then see if they bench you until then.
  - jdminhbg 4y ago
    > Any termination of employment before then is either a with-cause firing or a layoff where severance is required. If they're paying you until that future resignation date, it's not a firing or a layoff, is it? The part that your employer is responsible for is your salary, not providing you with things to do.
    - mecsred 4y ago
      I people usually don't keep getting paid after a "termination of employment"
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I would definitely want to talk to an employment lawyer familiar with the laws of the local jurisdiction before making any assumptions.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    Severance is often paid (in at-will employment jurisdictions) just as a way to get the departing employee to sign a document agreeing not to sue, and possibly agreeing not to disparage. I'm not an employment lawyer (but am a former lawyer), and I would think that if someone said they were going to quit way in the future, and was then fired, they would have a pretty poor case if they tried to sue. The company would credibly claim that it was not based on impermissible discrimination or retaliation, but was just because they assumed the employee would massively slack off. There's also the question of damages — if you were about to quit anyway, then your damages would be relatively small because it would only be the salary that would have been paid between the time you were escorted out and the time you planned to leave. It could be $100k if you're very well-paid, but that pales in comparison to what you would get in a discrimination lawsuit (which is what severance agreements are seeking to avoid). It would also be relatively difficult to find a lawyer who would take a case with a relatively small amount on the table, and an uphill battle in terms of proof.
kqr 4y ago
> Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. This sounds like such a neat way to deal with it. I wonder if it's legally valid in my jurisdiction (in Sweden.) I have never heard of it but yet again, why not?
- jethro_tell 4y ago
  I always do that, draft the email to my boss and hr, walk into my bosses office, send the email saying: "I will be ending my employment with ${company} effective ${two_weeks_from_now}. I'm giving ${X} weeks notice to afford ${company} the opportunity to transition my work and knowledge to other employees as they see fit. I appreciate the opportunity ${company} has given me and wish you all the best as you continue to advance ${company mission}" Then I say, "I'm quitting, my last day will be in ${two_weeks_from_now}" and there's already a record of how that conversation came about. No one's going to walk out and say they fired you and you're pretending to quit or strange shit like that.
- brtkdotse 4y ago
  Termination dates are in the employment contract 99.9% in Sweden. At most you’ll get a “lmao, no”.
  - thunfischbrot 4y ago
    Notice periods are, as far as I know and in my experience, the _minimum_ number of weeks or months to give notice. Nothing is stopping you from giving notice earlier.
    - psychphysic 4y ago
      The question is can an employer truncate it? It seems like you could really harm a company by forcing them to pay you to nothing if because they don't want to start someone on a project they will definitely leave half way through.
      - thunfischbrot 4y ago
refulgentis 4y ago
This isn’t accurate, might have worked in one-off situations but, given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help, not a legal conclusion. Note the obvious edge cases
- indymike 4y ago
  > given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help US centric advice: Most states will automatically award unemployment to the employee if they are termed before the resignation date. In some cases, a dated resignation when combined with an email chain about "how to get rid of them" it will turn into a genuine legal risk. Most US HR people will advise to just respect a reasonable resign date or offer a severance agreement to avoid risk. Source: aside doing it myself with a couple of employers, since then I've owned four companies and dealt with the aftermath from managers who think they are smarter than HR.
- robocat 4y ago
  If it works, you win $$: why be so negative? Maybe some downsides if they make you work longer, but that is a judgement call to make depending on context. Factually it worked twice for them, versus your theories that it shouldn’t work.
  - refulgentis 4y ago
    Comments are packed full of 'em, downside of preannouncing you're quitting months from now is you get 0
gamblor956 4y ago
In the U.S., an employee that resigns is not entitled to severance. In this case, you would only have received severance if you had been terminated before your resignation date. If they sent you home but continued to pay you for that month, you would not have been entitled to severance.
- indymike 4y ago
  This is correct, unless there's a reason why they should... and if they are smart, the severance will include setting the term date to the severance date.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    I don't understand your comment. The only circumstances in which a resigning employee is entitled to severance is if they have an employment contract entitling then to severance in the event of a voluntary departure. Even executives don't get that. A run of the mill employee definitely won't.
garbagecoder 4y ago
What state is this? This would only apply here if you already had a contract for a fixed term. Most employment here is at will and so this won't work. Everyone else: please talk to a lawyer in your state familiar with employment law before banking on this.
ricardobayes 4y ago
Probably not as you will just make it worse by letting them fire you. Which makes for an awkward reference call later.

morepork 4y ago

Isn't that just normal? How do people normally resign? I've always written up a letter saying my last day will be x

cassac 4y ago

I don’t know they’d have to award you wages, but the only alternative to that would be firing you. Some might try to do that out of spite but it would be far worse for them than you.

jethro_tell 4y ago
They'd usually have to prove they fired you with cause not because you said you quit. i.e. if you get caught stealing or are sexually harassing your co-workers, they can still fire you. They are not however required to let you work. They can revoke access and continue to pay, they can give you a package and terminate you employment. If you don't want to take the package, they can just walk you out of the building and terminate your employment two weeks later.
- cassac 4y ago
  I’d guess most people, in the US at least, are employed at-will and could be fired right on the spot with no cause given. The problem with that though is you could turn around and file for unemployment which might end up increasing the associated taxes for them with increased headaches. I’d agree that most reasonable HR departments wouldn’t let it go that far but some people like to play dirty irrespective of the costs.
  - namelessoracle 4y ago
    If you put in 2 weeks notice and you get fired on the spot its a slam dunk un employment claim. (assuming you can show that yes you gave notice and you weren't fired first) Most places would rather just pay you the 2 weeks if they really dont want you around than deal with unemployment. Lots of corporate environments firing people takes more than 2 weeks anyways, and you would just be creating extra work for HR for what would seem like no reason.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Unemployment is like $350 - $550/week.
      - dghlsakjg 4y ago
        Unemployment in the US is set at the state level. Many states pay significantly higher than $550. WA pays a max of $999 weekly.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Yeah. Last time I looked, MA was like $1k. Just across the border, NH was more like $400. Not a fortune and doesn’t start until vacation payout is done I believe but not nothing for most. You do need to at least go through some motions of job hunting.
        jfarina 4y ago
        Vacation payouts shouldn't be relevant. They are earned while working, so they are compensation from the period when you worked. Unless, of course, you are trying to collect during a period that is scheduled as a vacation? That could create problems.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      Can you explain what you mean by "slam dunk un employment claim"? Do you mean you'd be able to get unemployment benefits (which come from the state, not your company)? Or do you mean you'd have a claim against the company? As a former lawyer (US-based), my sense is the first is true, and the second is not. As long as they're not canning you for being in a protected class, they can fire at-will employees whenever they want.

masfuerte 4y ago

Dumb question: why would you get severance if you resigned?

Pet_Ant 4y ago
Because of resigned effective of a future date. Any termination of employment before then is either a with-cause firing or a layoff where severance is required. Seems like an interesting idea. Give as much notice as possible and then see if they bench you until then.
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  > Any termination of employment before then is either a with-cause firing or a layoff where severance is required. If they're paying you until that future resignation date, it's not a firing or a layoff, is it? The part that your employer is responsible for is your salary, not providing you with things to do.
  - mecsred 4y ago
    I people usually don't keep getting paid after a "termination of employment"
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- ghaff 4y ago
  I would definitely want to talk to an employment lawyer familiar with the laws of the local jurisdiction before making any assumptions.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  Severance is often paid (in at-will employment jurisdictions) just as a way to get the departing employee to sign a document agreeing not to sue, and possibly agreeing not to disparage. I'm not an employment lawyer (but am a former lawyer), and I would think that if someone said they were going to quit way in the future, and was then fired, they would have a pretty poor case if they tried to sue. The company would credibly claim that it was not based on impermissible discrimination or retaliation, but was just because they assumed the employee would massively slack off. There's also the question of damages — if you were about to quit anyway, then your damages would be relatively small because it would only be the salary that would have been paid between the time you were escorted out and the time you planned to leave. It could be $100k if you're very well-paid, but that pales in comparison to what you would get in a discrimination lawsuit (which is what severance agreements are seeking to avoid). It would also be relatively difficult to find a lawyer who would take a case with a relatively small amount on the table, and an uphill battle in terms of proof.

kqr 4y ago

> Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. This sounds like such a neat way to deal with it. I wonder if it's legally valid in my jurisdiction (in Sweden.) I have never heard of it but yet again, why not?

jethro_tell 4y ago
I always do that, draft the email to my boss and hr, walk into my bosses office, send the email saying: "I will be ending my employment with ${company} effective ${two_weeks_from_now}. I'm giving ${X} weeks notice to afford ${company} the opportunity to transition my work and knowledge to other employees as they see fit. I appreciate the opportunity ${company} has given me and wish you all the best as you continue to advance ${company mission}" Then I say, "I'm quitting, my last day will be in ${two_weeks_from_now}" and there's already a record of how that conversation came about. No one's going to walk out and say they fired you and you're pretending to quit or strange shit like that.
brtkdotse 4y ago
Termination dates are in the employment contract 99.9% in Sweden. At most you’ll get a “lmao, no”.
- thunfischbrot 4y ago
  Notice periods are, as far as I know and in my experience, the _minimum_ number of weeks or months to give notice. Nothing is stopping you from giving notice earlier.
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    The question is can an employer truncate it? It seems like you could really harm a company by forcing them to pay you to nothing if because they don't want to start someone on a project they will definitely leave half way through.
    - thunfischbrot 4y ago

refulgentis 4y ago

This isn’t accurate, might have worked in one-off situations but, given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help, not a legal conclusion. Note the obvious edge cases

indymike 4y ago
> given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help US centric advice: Most states will automatically award unemployment to the employee if they are termed before the resignation date. In some cases, a dated resignation when combined with an email chain about "how to get rid of them" it will turn into a genuine legal risk. Most US HR people will advise to just respect a reasonable resign date or offer a severance agreement to avoid risk. Source: aside doing it myself with a couple of employers, since then I've owned four companies and dealt with the aftermath from managers who think they are smarter than HR.
robocat 4y ago
If it works, you win $$: why be so negative? Maybe some downsides if they make you work longer, but that is a judgement call to make depending on context. Factually it worked twice for them, versus your theories that it shouldn’t work.
- refulgentis 4y ago
  Comments are packed full of 'em, downside of preannouncing you're quitting months from now is you get 0

gamblor956 4y ago

In the U.S., an employee that resigns is not entitled to severance. In this case, you would only have received severance if you had been terminated before your resignation date. If they sent you home but continued to pay you for that month, you would not have been entitled to severance.

indymike 4y ago
This is correct, unless there's a reason why they should... and if they are smart, the severance will include setting the term date to the severance date.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  I don't understand your comment. The only circumstances in which a resigning employee is entitled to severance is if they have an employment contract entitling then to severance in the event of a voluntary departure. Even executives don't get that. A run of the mill employee definitely won't.

garbagecoder 4y ago

What state is this? This would only apply here if you already had a contract for a fixed term. Most employment here is at will and so this won't work. Everyone else: please talk to a lawyer in your state familiar with employment law before banking on this.

ricardobayes 4y ago

Probably not as you will just make it worse by letting them fire you. Which makes for an awkward reference call later.