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Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had t

Rear-wheel-drive vehicles have traction problems on slick roads. Losing traction on your front wheels is terrifying. I've had this happen before as I have had the opposite fishtailing with front-wheel-drive. Losing rear-wheel traction is something that can be compensated, but I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction.

jerrysievert 3y ago
yes, RWD can have traction issues, but modern (2006+) traction control handles this nicely. my RWD can be extremely squirrelly if I turn off traction control (I call it the "fun button"), but I've always felt I've had more control than what a FWD can offer me.
- mrinterweb 3y ago
  I've only driven older RWD vehicles so I experienced RWD + traction control. I just remember a couple freaky situations driving in older RWD on icy roads. FWD vehicles definitely had more control, but again that was in older vehicles.
  - jerrysievert 3y ago
    FWD don't have more control under slippery conditions if your front tires break free. RWD + traction control is pretty amazing. of course, it doesn't help too much in ice if you're running on summer sports tires, but that's an entirely different problem.
    - jcadam 3y ago
      I keep meaning to get me a set of studded tires for the winter. Next winter, for sure :)
      - jerrysievert 3y ago
        if you can, please use non-studded winter tires. they are much better to the roads, and typically have very good winter traction (just change them out for summer).
    - moremetadata 3y ago
      [dead]
m463 3y ago
I would think that front wheel drive would impair steering in tricky situations, while rear wheel drive would separate steering from drive and be better (with computerized help)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kolinko 3y ago
  It's the opposite. If you lose back wheel traction in an FWD car, you "just" point your wheels in the right direction and accelerate - the front wheels will have both steering and power, so they will "drag" the car out of a slip. With RWD you need more training for these situations, and it's more difficult to save a car. With front wheels slipping it's also easier with FWD. In either case, it's good to go for training lessons to learn how to deal with situations like these. Without practice your first instincts will most likely be wrong ;)
  - m463 3y ago
    But the reason you lose rear-wheel traction on a rwd car is usually because of the motor. You are less likely to lose traction on the back tires with a FWD car. The more things you overload (acceleration, brakes and steering) the harder it is for a tire to do the right thing.
jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and maintain that slide however you want. All 4 wheels have lost traction but you can still widen or tighten the radius by using weight shifts. Basically, you start steering using the pedals more than the wheel. So you're not totally screwed if you lose front wheel traction, but this is stuff we don't teach in basic drivers ed classes.
- 0_____0 3y ago
  In Norway, this is basic driver education. The drivers' license there requires "slippery road" training, which involves a more basic version of what you're describing.
  - lukevp 3y ago
    In the land of the free, you can drive with a parent at 15 and get a license at 16 with zero required classes or real world driving test, with just your parent’s signature, a 70% pass rate on a written test and $25. That’s how I got my license in TX at least. I think this is a bad thing, fwiw. The standards of driver safety training here are incredibly low.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
      It varies by state, but most of them require either a driving exam or a piece of paper from a drivers education class. Texas is something of an exception in it's general lassie faire posture.
      - jcadam 3y ago
        When I moved to Alaska, in my early 40s, with a license in-hand from the state I had just moved from, they made me take a written test before issuing me an AK license. At least they didn't make me take a road test. Weirdos.
nicenewtemp84 3y ago
In FWD, you let off and it starts to steer. In RWD, once it's out of shape, you better know what you're doing to keep it in line. Fwd is 10x easier for average drivers.
- speedgoose 3y ago
  It’s very true for old cars but a recent car will have the electronics fix everything very quickly. As an average driver I can floor a modern electric RWD car while turning and despite the strong torque, nothing bad happens.
jjav 3y ago
> I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction Sure you can. A tire, any tire on any axle, will start to slide iff you're asking it to do too much work vs. the available traction. That's it. You can always do one (or both) of two things: ask the tire to do less, or increase the traction available to it. You have controls available to change both of these variables (steering and throttle). Accelerating transfers weight to the rear wheels and lifting off the throttle (deceleration) transfers weight to the front wheels. The steering controls how much work you're asking the front wheels to do. Once you grok this, it follows that RWD is easier and more controllable at the limit of traction due to separation of controls. The steering controls front traction and the throttle controls rear traction (but I'm simplifying, as the throttle also controls weight transfer thus traction on both axles). In FWD cars you have less fine-grained control since the throttle and steering are both using up traction of the front axle and the rear wheels are merely along for the ride. In a RWD car you can steer with the throttle without changing steering wheel angle. All of this is car control 101. Which I wish was taught in the US as a prerequisite for getting a drivers license but sadly it is not, so approximately nobody has any experience in how to control a car when traction is less than optimal (rain, snow, oil on the street, etc.) I urge everyone who drives to take a few car control courses to learn these basics. It can save your life, or the life of others, or maybe just some car repair bills. Totally worth it. You can reason about the physics when reading about it online but there is no way to train your muscle memory to do the right thing other than by actually spending time practicing these skills in the real world, ideally with a car control instructor next to you.
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
We live on a gravel road with lots of twists and corners. I taught all my kids to experiment on corners, go too fast, turn too hard, slide. Learn what it feels like, how to recover. Eventually they could all do a 'controlled slide' around a corner and continue uninterrupted. They've all reported how useful this skill is later (they're all 25+) when they encounter slick conditions - they can feel what to do and respond quickly and intuitively.

jerrysievert 3y ago

yes, RWD can have traction issues, but modern (2006+) traction control handles this nicely. my RWD can be extremely squirrelly if I turn off traction control (I call it the "fun button"), but I've always felt I've had more control than what a FWD can offer me.

mrinterweb 3y ago
I've only driven older RWD vehicles so I experienced RWD + traction control. I just remember a couple freaky situations driving in older RWD on icy roads. FWD vehicles definitely had more control, but again that was in older vehicles.
- jerrysievert 3y ago
  FWD don't have more control under slippery conditions if your front tires break free. RWD + traction control is pretty amazing. of course, it doesn't help too much in ice if you're running on summer sports tires, but that's an entirely different problem.
  - jcadam 3y ago
    I keep meaning to get me a set of studded tires for the winter. Next winter, for sure :)
    - jerrysievert 3y ago
      if you can, please use non-studded winter tires. they are much better to the roads, and typically have very good winter traction (just change them out for summer).
  - moremetadata 3y ago
    [dead]

m463 3y ago

I would think that front wheel drive would impair steering in tricky situations, while rear wheel drive would separate steering from drive and be better (with computerized help)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kolinko 3y ago
It's the opposite. If you lose back wheel traction in an FWD car, you "just" point your wheels in the right direction and accelerate - the front wheels will have both steering and power, so they will "drag" the car out of a slip. With RWD you need more training for these situations, and it's more difficult to save a car. With front wheels slipping it's also easier with FWD. In either case, it's good to go for training lessons to learn how to deal with situations like these. Without practice your first instincts will most likely be wrong ;)
- m463 3y ago
  But the reason you lose rear-wheel traction on a rwd car is usually because of the motor. You are less likely to lose traction on the back tires with a FWD car. The more things you overload (acceleration, brakes and steering) the harder it is for a tire to do the right thing.

jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago

No matter the powertrain layout if you lose traction on the front, ie understeer, you need to create a weight shift forward to restore traction. I've done a couple rally instructional clinics, and one of the introductory drills they spent a fair bit of time on was just a giant circle of cones set up on dirt. You go around it faster and faster until the car breaks free into a slide, then you learn how to control and maintain that slide however you want. All 4 wheels have lost traction but you can still widen or tighten the radius by using weight shifts. Basically, you start steering using the pedals more than the wheel. So you're not totally screwed if you lose front wheel traction, but this is stuff we don't teach in basic drivers ed classes.

0_____0 3y ago
In Norway, this is basic driver education. The drivers' license there requires "slippery road" training, which involves a more basic version of what you're describing.
- lukevp 3y ago
  In the land of the free, you can drive with a parent at 15 and get a license at 16 with zero required classes or real world driving test, with just your parent’s signature, a 70% pass rate on a written test and $25. That’s how I got my license in TX at least. I think this is a bad thing, fwiw. The standards of driver safety training here are incredibly low.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
    It varies by state, but most of them require either a driving exam or a piece of paper from a drivers education class. Texas is something of an exception in it's general lassie faire posture.
    - jcadam 3y ago
      When I moved to Alaska, in my early 40s, with a license in-hand from the state I had just moved from, they made me take a written test before issuing me an AK license. At least they didn't make me take a road test. Weirdos.

nicenewtemp84 3y ago

In FWD, you let off and it starts to steer. In RWD, once it's out of shape, you better know what you're doing to keep it in line. Fwd is 10x easier for average drivers.

speedgoose 3y ago
It’s very true for old cars but a recent car will have the electronics fix everything very quickly. As an average driver I can floor a modern electric RWD car while turning and despite the strong torque, nothing bad happens.

jjav 3y ago

> I don't think you can do much when you lose front-wheel traction Sure you can. A tire, any tire on any axle, will start to slide iff you're asking it to do too much work vs. the available traction. That's it. You can always do one (or both) of two things: ask the tire to do less, or increase the traction available to it. You have controls available to change both of these variables (steering and throttle). Accelerating transfers weight to the rear wheels and lifting off the throttle (deceleration) transfers weight to the front wheels. The steering controls how much work you're asking the front wheels to do. Once you grok this, it follows that RWD is easier and more controllable at the limit of traction due to separation of controls. The steering controls front traction and the throttle controls rear traction (but I'm simplifying, as the throttle also controls weight transfer thus traction on both axles). In FWD cars you have less fine-grained control since the throttle and steering are both using up traction of the front axle and the rear wheels are merely along for the ride. In a RWD car you can steer with the throttle without changing steering wheel angle. All of this is car control 101. Which I wish was taught in the US as a prerequisite for getting a drivers license but sadly it is not, so approximately nobody has any experience in how to control a car when traction is less than optimal (rain, snow, oil on the street, etc.) I urge everyone who drives to take a few car control courses to learn these basics. It can save your life, or the life of others, or maybe just some car repair bills. Totally worth it. You can reason about the physics when reading about it online but there is no way to train your muscle memory to do the right thing other than by actually spending time practicing these skills in the real world, ideally with a car control instructor next to you.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

We live on a gravel road with lots of twists and corners. I taught all my kids to experiment on corners, go too fast, turn too hard, slide. Learn what it feels like, how to recover. Eventually they could all do a 'controlled slide' around a corner and continue uninterrupted. They've all reported how useful this skill is later (they're all 25+) when they encounter slick conditions - they can feel what to do and respond quickly and intuitively.