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Crazy Decision, but that's the way the world is turning. This is another reason I'm coming to believe I am eventually going to be shafted badly by being in the

Crazy Decision, but that's the way the world is turning. This is another reason I'm coming to believe I am eventually going to be shafted badly by being in the kindle ecosphere. I have been a user since 2010 with no issues for the first ten years. Then came the recent update the middle of last year whereby I can no longer lend my books out to my friend, this was a big blow as we used to exchange books we liked. Recently I have also noticed that the device seems to want to turn on Wi-Fi for me to open books I have downloaded already onto the device which also has sufficient memory to store them, this seems more to be the ones I haven't read for a few months. The final nail in the coffin came a few weeks ago when I wanted to re-read a book I had read and it asked me to purchase it, thinking I must have read it on kindle unlimited which I had subscribed to and cancelled a few years earlier I pressed buy now, after reading it I looked back through my purchase history and found the same book I had bought five years before. Not even sure who to call on this one but prior to this if I owned the book already it just came up with the read-now button not the buy-now! I am almost certain that sometime in the future if the kindle doesn't phone home after a period the books on it will disappear. I managed to get some books off it to epub format, but the most recent updates have somehow stopped the program that did that from working. Bottom line is I love my kindle, but I am only getting epub books, keeping them on the PC and emailing them to the device.

galkk 3y ago
> I am almost certain that sometime in the future if the kindle doesn't phone home after a period the books on it will disappear YouTube app video downloads work exactly that way, same for prime video, I believe
crooked-v 4y ago
> The final nail in the coffin came a few weeks ago when I wanted to re-read a book I had read and it asked me to purchase it, thinking I must have read it on kindle unlimited which I had subscribed to and cancelled a few years earlier I pressed buy now, after reading it I looked back through my purchase history and found the same book I had bought five years before. This is almost certainly the publisher's fault, by way of putting up a different listing for the same book. You've probably got two different versions of the book in your library now.
alpaca128 4y ago
> the device seems to want to turn on Wi-Fi for me to open books I have downloaded already onto the device They probably weren't downloaded. My Kindle has been doing this thing for years: it only seems to download enough metadata to show a newly purchased book in the list, but the actual book won't download until I try to read it. I don't know why because it's utterly stupid, I don't know under what circumstances it does this and when it downloads the entire book by itself, it seems to be completely random. > I managed to get some books off it to epub format, but the most recent updates have somehow stopped the program that did that from working. And 5 years later companies will whine to the media about evil piracy again.
CobrastanJorji 4y ago
Is it crazy? Copyright is the right to make a copy. Libraries can buy and loan books because none of that involves making a copy. Digitizing a book and loaning digital copies does involve making copies, so it's a violation of copyright. Seems very straightforward to me. Am I missing some major detail or catch or something? Sure, there's an exception for "fair use," but I don't think fair use has ever covered making a complete copy of a work and giving it to someone else. And of the four factors judging fair use, the "amount and substantiality of the portion taken" one fails completely here. Doesn't seem surprising.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > Is it crazy? Copyright is the right to make a copy. Libraries can buy and loan books because none of that involves making a copy. Digitizing a book and loaning digital copies does involve making copies, so it's a violation of copyright. Seems very straightforward to me. Am I missing some major detail or catch or something? The problem is that viewing copies that way completely trashes the rights people have for their digital goods. Displaying it is technically a copy. Reselling it is technically a copy. Format shifting is technically a copy. Lending is technically a copy. If I make an ephemeral copy, and keep the original in a vault the entire time the ephemeral copy is loaned out, that should be good enough. (Maybe you want a minimum loan period, details details, but something that works just like a traditional library shouldn't be illegal for digital assets.)
  - CobrastanJorji 4y ago
    > the rights people have for their digital goods People don't have any rights to their digital goods. Doesn't exist. They are not. It is wonderful to discuss ideas for how the system SHOULD be. I 100% support a legislated solution for digital ownership of copies of things, with a right to transfer and so on, but that's sadly a hypothetical discussion about what could be.
    - TheCoelacanth 3y ago
      That is insanity that was never envisioned when copyright was created. First-sale doctrine is well established. If you buy a book, you can give it away, sell it or lend it to anyone you want. Those rights should not simply disappear when you start dealing with a digital book.
nebula8804 4y ago
Sounds like someone needs to develop an alternative OS for the device that does away with all this nonsense.

galkk 3y ago

> I am almost certain that sometime in the future if the kindle doesn't phone home after a period the books on it will disappear YouTube app video downloads work exactly that way, same for prime video, I believe

crooked-v 4y ago

> The final nail in the coffin came a few weeks ago when I wanted to re-read a book I had read and it asked me to purchase it, thinking I must have read it on kindle unlimited which I had subscribed to and cancelled a few years earlier I pressed buy now, after reading it I looked back through my purchase history and found the same book I had bought five years before. This is almost certainly the publisher's fault, by way of putting up a different listing for the same book. You've probably got two different versions of the book in your library now.

alpaca128 4y ago

> the device seems to want to turn on Wi-Fi for me to open books I have downloaded already onto the device They probably weren't downloaded. My Kindle has been doing this thing for years: it only seems to download enough metadata to show a newly purchased book in the list, but the actual book won't download until I try to read it. I don't know why because it's utterly stupid, I don't know under what circumstances it does this and when it downloads the entire book by itself, it seems to be completely random. > I managed to get some books off it to epub format, but the most recent updates have somehow stopped the program that did that from working. And 5 years later companies will whine to the media about evil piracy again.

CobrastanJorji 4y ago

Is it crazy? Copyright is the right to make a copy. Libraries can buy and loan books because none of that involves making a copy. Digitizing a book and loaning digital copies does involve making copies, so it's a violation of copyright. Seems very straightforward to me. Am I missing some major detail or catch or something? Sure, there's an exception for "fair use," but I don't think fair use has ever covered making a complete copy of a work and giving it to someone else. And of the four factors judging fair use, the "amount and substantiality of the portion taken" one fails completely here. Doesn't seem surprising.

Dylan16807 4y ago
> Is it crazy? Copyright is the right to make a copy. Libraries can buy and loan books because none of that involves making a copy. Digitizing a book and loaning digital copies does involve making copies, so it's a violation of copyright. Seems very straightforward to me. Am I missing some major detail or catch or something? The problem is that viewing copies that way completely trashes the rights people have for their digital goods. Displaying it is technically a copy. Reselling it is technically a copy. Format shifting is technically a copy. Lending is technically a copy. If I make an ephemeral copy, and keep the original in a vault the entire time the ephemeral copy is loaned out, that should be good enough. (Maybe you want a minimum loan period, details details, but something that works just like a traditional library shouldn't be illegal for digital assets.)
- CobrastanJorji 4y ago
  > the rights people have for their digital goods People don't have any rights to their digital goods. Doesn't exist. They are not. It is wonderful to discuss ideas for how the system SHOULD be. I 100% support a legislated solution for digital ownership of copies of things, with a right to transfer and so on, but that's sadly a hypothetical discussion about what could be.
  - TheCoelacanth 3y ago
    That is insanity that was never envisioned when copyright was created. First-sale doctrine is well established. If you buy a book, you can give it away, sell it or lend it to anyone you want. Those rights should not simply disappear when you start dealing with a digital book.

nebula8804 4y ago

Sounds like someone needs to develop an alternative OS for the device that does away with all this nonsense.