5 ms·

"Some products that may contain PFAS include: Some grease-resistant paper, fast food containers/wrappers, microwave popcorn bags, pizza boxes, and candy wrapper

"Some products that may contain PFAS include: Some grease-resistant paper, fast food containers/wrappers, microwave popcorn bags, pizza boxes, and candy wrappers" https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/exposure.html https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/exposure.html coincidence that this covers so many unhealthy food categories? If it's true, it seems like a compounding effect.

Scoundreller 4y ago
I’m hoping this is only applies to delivery/takeout pizza. Frozen pizzas here usually comes in a plastic bag in a box and only sometimes on a cardboard tray that is removed for cooking, but since it’s frozen, I’m praying it doesn’t have the same coating.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  According to this 2018 article most delivery pizza boxes don’t have PFAS to start with: https://toxicfreefuture.org/blog/pfass-popcorn-bags-pizza-boxes/ https://toxicfreefuture.org/blog/pfass-popcorn-bags-pizza-bo... On the other hand they do have a host of other potentially dangerous additives, dyes, preservatives, especially if you’re not in a place with strong regulations like the EU.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago
    > especially if you’re not in a place with strong regulations like the EU. Why is this? America is a first world country... but why we don't have strong regulations?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      Muh FrEeDoM!
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      The way our government is set up is kinda just... bad, basically. It's why our system's not usually used as a model for new democracies, even when we're the ones guiding their creation.
    - clnq 4y ago
      Because the free market is supposed to self regulate or something similar. See, no consumer would ever buy PFOAs… wait. I mean no consumer would ever put microplastics in their… hold on. I mean who would buy products made with slave lab… I mean surely any company with anti-consumer practices will not stay in business for long… Perhaps we should get with the times and accept that Goodhart’s Law applies to the measures of capitalism. A consumer can absolutely be poisoned or cheated by a product satisfying all commonly accepted quality criteria. As soon as those criteria are agreed upon by the market, they become targets to manipulate.
    - tracker1 4y ago
      Unfortunately, big business, the seventh day adventist church, the medical training schools and the government have an incestuous, in-bred relationship that isn't based on what's best for humanity. It's more about a combination of religious doctrine (veganism) and industry trends towards maximizing profit more than anything else. A lot of industrial "food" was started here... Often, the discoveries of good vs. bad in terms of new "food" can take 3-5 generations for the issues to show up in people. For example, Omega 6 fatty acids are 25-40% of fats in American bodies today vs 1900, where it was closer to 2-3%. Likely a factor in a lot of endemic issues with hormone production today. That doesn't account for modern wheat being a multiplier in terms of histamine response (often confused with glucose intolerance). I'm not strictly anti-gmo, or against processing food... but it's a matter of extent, and what one mixes in to what is natural and what is so refined it no longer resembles real foot. Even then, hyper-palatability is another issue. There's also the half century push for reducing dietary cholesterol and saturated fats that has become ingrained in culture..
    - r00fus 4y ago
      Regulatory Capture. Corporations and their wealthy owners run the show and your health is less important than their profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
    - red-iron-pine 4y ago
      Cash Rules Everything Around Me (CREAM; dollar dollar bill yall) Or to put it another way, look at the list of F500 companies, esp. F100, and notice how many of them are in fields like healthcare, foods, and oil & gas (plastics being a way to utilize leftovers from petroleum refinement). Lots of money means marketing & propaganda campaigns to sway public opinion, and a swayed public opinion leads to voting in politicians friendly to corporate views. Friendly politicos then are able to sway regulations in favor of corporations. From there you get Regulatory Capture, where the regulators are often handpicked by the industry they're ostensibly supposed to regulate.
stnmtn 4y ago
From how I'm reading this, couldn't this easily be something like: unhealthy foods tend to have PFAS, so people who eat unhealthy food and gain weight also might have an increase in their blood, but this is just a correlation not a causation
- cscheid 4y ago
  I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I read the methods section and the stats model doesn't seem to adjust for "calories consumed after dieting stopped". Those calories, as you point out, can be correlated with PFAS because of their association with high-calorie foods. This seems to me like a potential confounding factor.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    it'd be interesting to know if the PFAs affected the caloric equation (greater absorption, thermic effect of digestion, NEAT), if it affected behavior (maybe PFAs stimulate appetite?), or if it's simply association with foods which have known Caloric/Behavior effects ... (eg processed foods have lower satiation often leading to a behavior of eating more calories)
- elif 4y ago
  In either case, an intentionally low PFAS diet would result in weight loss, as it would necessitate removal of those unhealthy foods.
- tracker1 4y ago
  Even "whole" ingredients are often packaged in plastics. I think there's a lot going on, not to mention breaking free of metabolic dysfunction is extremely difficult for a lot of reasons.
maerF0x0 4y ago
> unhealthy food categories What exactly do you mean by unhealthy? For the purposes of weight (fat?) loss (and ignoring PFAs contimation) foods are equivalent if calorically equivalent once accounting for thermic effect of protein, and digestibility of certain carbohydrates like dietary fiber and sugar alcohols... > After the 26-week intervention period, food and instructions were no longer provided, and many chose to discontinue their participation during this period, whereas 101 remained up to the maximum duration of 26 additional weeks This means PFAs could affect any of the main pathways of Calories In Calories Out balance from fidgeting, temperature regulation, ghrelin/appetite (lack of satiation control leading non-adherence to a diet) etc. But there's little evidence that the foods themselves are "unhealthy" or fattening. They simply are consumed in quantities that hinder/negate attempts to lose weight.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  There is certainly evidence that different foods have different effects on Satiety and hunger separate from their caloric content.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Scoundreller 4y ago

I’m hoping this is only applies to delivery/takeout pizza. Frozen pizzas here usually comes in a plastic bag in a box and only sometimes on a cardboard tray that is removed for cooking, but since it’s frozen, I’m praying it doesn’t have the same coating.

ricardobeat 4y ago
According to this 2018 article most delivery pizza boxes don’t have PFAS to start with: https://toxicfreefuture.org/blog/pfass-popcorn-bags-pizza-boxes/ https://toxicfreefuture.org/blog/pfass-popcorn-bags-pizza-bo... On the other hand they do have a host of other potentially dangerous additives, dyes, preservatives, especially if you’re not in a place with strong regulations like the EU.
- WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago
  > especially if you’re not in a place with strong regulations like the EU. Why is this? America is a first world country... but why we don't have strong regulations?
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Muh FrEeDoM!
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    The way our government is set up is kinda just... bad, basically. It's why our system's not usually used as a model for new democracies, even when we're the ones guiding their creation.
  - clnq 4y ago
    Because the free market is supposed to self regulate or something similar. See, no consumer would ever buy PFOAs… wait. I mean no consumer would ever put microplastics in their… hold on. I mean who would buy products made with slave lab… I mean surely any company with anti-consumer practices will not stay in business for long… Perhaps we should get with the times and accept that Goodhart’s Law applies to the measures of capitalism. A consumer can absolutely be poisoned or cheated by a product satisfying all commonly accepted quality criteria. As soon as those criteria are agreed upon by the market, they become targets to manipulate.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    Unfortunately, big business, the seventh day adventist church, the medical training schools and the government have an incestuous, in-bred relationship that isn't based on what's best for humanity. It's more about a combination of religious doctrine (veganism) and industry trends towards maximizing profit more than anything else. A lot of industrial "food" was started here... Often, the discoveries of good vs. bad in terms of new "food" can take 3-5 generations for the issues to show up in people. For example, Omega 6 fatty acids are 25-40% of fats in American bodies today vs 1900, where it was closer to 2-3%. Likely a factor in a lot of endemic issues with hormone production today. That doesn't account for modern wheat being a multiplier in terms of histamine response (often confused with glucose intolerance). I'm not strictly anti-gmo, or against processing food... but it's a matter of extent, and what one mixes in to what is natural and what is so refined it no longer resembles real foot. Even then, hyper-palatability is another issue. There's also the half century push for reducing dietary cholesterol and saturated fats that has become ingrained in culture..
  - r00fus 4y ago
    Regulatory Capture. Corporations and their wealthy owners run the show and your health is less important than their profits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Cash Rules Everything Around Me (CREAM; dollar dollar bill yall) Or to put it another way, look at the list of F500 companies, esp. F100, and notice how many of them are in fields like healthcare, foods, and oil & gas (plastics being a way to utilize leftovers from petroleum refinement). Lots of money means marketing & propaganda campaigns to sway public opinion, and a swayed public opinion leads to voting in politicians friendly to corporate views. Friendly politicos then are able to sway regulations in favor of corporations. From there you get Regulatory Capture, where the regulators are often handpicked by the industry they're ostensibly supposed to regulate.

stnmtn 4y ago

From how I'm reading this, couldn't this easily be something like: unhealthy foods tend to have PFAS, so people who eat unhealthy food and gain weight also might have an increase in their blood, but this is just a correlation not a causation

cscheid 4y ago
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I read the methods section and the stats model doesn't seem to adjust for "calories consumed after dieting stopped". Those calories, as you point out, can be correlated with PFAS because of their association with high-calorie foods. This seems to me like a potential confounding factor.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  it'd be interesting to know if the PFAs affected the caloric equation (greater absorption, thermic effect of digestion, NEAT), if it affected behavior (maybe PFAs stimulate appetite?), or if it's simply association with foods which have known Caloric/Behavior effects ... (eg processed foods have lower satiation often leading to a behavior of eating more calories)
elif 4y ago
In either case, an intentionally low PFAS diet would result in weight loss, as it would necessitate removal of those unhealthy foods.
tracker1 4y ago
Even "whole" ingredients are often packaged in plastics. I think there's a lot going on, not to mention breaking free of metabolic dysfunction is extremely difficult for a lot of reasons.

maerF0x0 4y ago

> unhealthy food categories What exactly do you mean by unhealthy? For the purposes of weight (fat?) loss (and ignoring PFAs contimation) foods are equivalent if calorically equivalent once accounting for thermic effect of protein, and digestibility of certain carbohydrates like dietary fiber and sugar alcohols... > After the 26-week intervention period, food and instructions were no longer provided, and many chose to discontinue their participation during this period, whereas 101 remained up to the maximum duration of 26 additional weeks This means PFAs could affect any of the main pathways of Calories In Calories Out balance from fidgeting, temperature regulation, ghrelin/appetite (lack of satiation control leading non-adherence to a diet) etc. But there's little evidence that the foods themselves are "unhealthy" or fattening. They simply are consumed in quantities that hinder/negate attempts to lose weight.

amanaplanacanal 4y ago
There is certainly evidence that different foods have different effects on Satiety and hunger separate from their caloric content.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]