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> Technically they could have been logging your traffic Of course they “could have” but their entire business depends on them not doing it.
by hnarn 3y ago
> Technically they could have been logging your traffic
Of course they “could have” but their entire business depends on them not doing it.
- bragr 3y agoThat's a specious argument, because the choice could be between logging your traffic and being forced to shutdown under some kind of Swedish NSL, or forced to keep operating and logging even if they want to shut down. Not saying this is what happened, just that your reasoning doesn't really hold. Hell it's entirely possible Mullvad is a honeypot operated by some foreign intelligence service.
- nabla9 3y agoThere is no such laws in Sweden.
- bragr 3y agoThat does not appear to be factual: https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/svensk-forfattningssamling/lag-2008717-om-signalspaning-i_sfs-2008-717 https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/svensk-f...
- SiempreViernes 3y agoWhat do you mean? Lag 2008:717 does not contain any provisions about forcing companies to log or store data. Rättegångsbalken does have a provision that a prosecutor can order you to preserve information you already have saved for a maximum of 180 days (https://lagen.nu/1942:740#K27P16S1 https://lagen.nu/1942:740#K27P16S1). I can't find anything about what the punishment for ignoring such an order would be, but to say a company could be forced to keep operating seems extraordinarily unfounded.
- bragr 3y agoTry this one [1] which contains an obligation for operators to comply and maintain secrecy. I'm not a lawyer, and definitely not a swedish lawyer, but my point is, despite baked in protections, like most countries, Sweden seems to have a robust set of overlapping national security and surveillance laws. [1] https://lagen.nu/prop/2006/07:63 https://lagen.nu/prop/2006/07:63
- hnarn 3y agoMullvad is not an operator, and you’re moving the goal posts.
- SiempreViernes 3y agoWhen you try to argue something is law, please have the decency to link to the actual law, you have linked a proposal and not the law as accepted by parliament.
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago> being forced to shutdown under some kind of Swedish NSL Given Mullvad I think they'd rather shut down.
- hnarn 3y ago> it's entirely possible Mullvad is a honeypot operated by some foreign intelligence service. “Entirely” possible? Sure, I guess it’s “entirely” possible that the NSA is actually controlled by a reptilian, illuminati cabal of extraterrestrials, while we’re just making stuff up without any factual basis whatsoever.
- stametseater 3y agoBad faith responses like this lashing out at people like bragr make me even more suspicious. You know damn well, or should know, that companies secretly being owned by intelligence agencies is something that has happened before and could happen again. Meanwhile there is no evidence at all for reptilian ETs ever existing. And furthermore, I am sure you know that when dealing with matters of security, it pays to exercise precaution and be wary of scenarios you cannot prove to be happening at the moment. E.g., you don't know your new friend you met at the bus stop is secret police, an informant for the Vichy government, but until you're damn sure he isn't then you don't let him know the location of your resistance safehouse. You don't need to have proof that your new friend has done anything wrong to be cautious of that possibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
- blargpls 3y agoSee Crypto AG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG) for a company in the cryptography / privacy industry that was owned by intelligence services.
- vorpalhex 3y agoIt's possible you're in a coma and everything you're experiencing is a terribly detailed dream. It's not very likely though.
- TJSomething 3y agoThat one's pretty easy to disprove though. Just have a computer solve a random NP-complete problem and then verify it by hand.
- gala8y 3y agoCan you, please, explain?
- Dylan16807 3y agoWe're assuming in this scenario that your memory is still basically functional, so the math on a sheet of paper won't be replaced suddenly without you noticing. If you can't even remember things in the medium term that's a level beyond "trapped in a dream" that's much more hopeless. So, with that assumption, you make a computer solve a problem that's impossible for a human to work through in a practical amount of time. And then you verify it got the right answer. This proves the math wasn't done by your dreaming brain. (At least it proves it to a pretty good certainty, and you can repeat the test.) Many NP-complete problems are good candidates here for slow solutions and fast verifications.
- tadfisher 3y agoThis assumes the dreamer is a human brain.
- therein 3y agoYeah I kept thinking about simulation stuff too but GP's method is a good one for being trapped in one's own mind situation. Also for situations that have the standard dream level of fidelity, you can try basic reality checks like putting your finger through your hand or more conspicuously spinning along your own axis.
- nicce 3y agoLaw enforcements could force Mullvad to start logging some specific account if they manage to indentify the account. Service might not collect data but they could be forced with warrant to start doing so for specific entities. This has happened in Finland, for example.
- coconut08 3y agomullvad has time and again shown itself to be one of if not the best actors in the entire vpn space, but you still have no real way of knowing if they are being honest. also their business definitely doesn't depend on being honest or standing for their values. there are plenty of vpn's who run on fake marketing that give the impression that they have certain values and do certain things while actually not doing it and they are way more successful than mullvad.
- qzx_pierri 3y ago> there are plenty of vpn's who run on fake marketing that give the impression that they have certain values and do certain things while actually not doing it and they are way more successful than mullvad. Yes, but Mullvad also doesn’t whore themselves out to any YouTuber that will accept a sponsorship agreement. I’ve never seen an ad for them. I’ve only heard of them from people who tell me they’re the best. Of course we shouldn’t trust them 100%. Trust isn’t required them competent OpSec is implemented within a workflow. Trust is a vulnerability.
- coconut08 3y agopretending you don't need trust when you actually do is a vulnerability. of course you need to trust that mullvad is doing what they actually say they are doing. there is literally no way for you to verify everything they claim.
- EGreg 3y agoAnd yet you trust WhatsApp and Facebook and Signal with their claims of end-to-end encryption. Why?
- doublerabbit 3y agoI don't myself. If it isn't on my own infra, I won't trust it. The idea that folk are keeping passwords in some cloud management portal owned by some company boggles my mind. But this is a very controversial opinion and offends many.
- sleepybrett 3y agoTheir entire business depends on them not telling you they are doing it.
- vkou 3y ago> their entire business depends on them not doing it... ... in a way that you, as a customer, can detect. 1. You can't have any hard guarantees about what information is retained by third parties about you. 2. As other comments here have pointed out, something smells a bit weird with this.
- hnarn 3y agoHow profound. So what is your alternate theory of what is happening here?
- vkou 3y agoMy theory is that if you need an iron-clad guarantee of privacy, you're not going to get it from a VPN. If you're interested in hiding from civil snoops (RIAA, MPAA), by all means, use one. If you're interested in hiding from a government, then by all means, keep rolling the honeypot dice.