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Yup, and no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore. The global value of the dollar is going to be destroyed over time. It's really breathtaking how quickly

Yup, and no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore. The global value of the dollar is going to be destroyed over time. It's really breathtaking how quickly the west has decided to shoot itself in the foot with nothing to show for it.

boc 3y ago
Cite your sources for the claim that “no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore” The West has stood up to a blatant land-grab invasion and has armed Ukrainians with the means to defend themselves effectively. Decimating the Russian military without firing a shot is objectively a NATO victory, regardless of the ultimate outcome.
- ren_engineer 3y ago
  the ham-fisted SWIFT ban was the real mistake and that is what's driving countries away from the dollar more than anything. Removing Russia from SWIFT was the financial equivalent of launching nukes and will be seen as a major mistake long term China's competitor to SWIFT has doubled in transaction volume since the sanctions and is growing fast - https://www.ft.com/content/6d5bbdbc-9f5d-41b2-ba80-7d8ac3973cf3 https://www.ft.com/content/6d5bbdbc-9f5d-41b2-ba80-7d8ac3973...
  - boc 3y ago
    Russia’s economy is smaller and less diverse than the state of New York. People treat Russia as a near-peer when they are in reality a backwater gas station strapped to a cold-war era nuclear triad. The fact that their military can’t defeat ukraine is absolutely baffling, but indicative of how rotten that country has become. Cutting them off from SWIFT isn’t a nuke in the new financial Cold War. It’s the consequence of the path Russia chose when they started this incredibly stupid invasion. Framing western reactions to Russian stupidity as “the real mistake” shows that you aren’t paying enough attention. The US threw down the gauntlet against an unimportant Russian invasion to ensure China gets the message that the United States is ready for economic warfare over Taiwan. If that action decreases the likelihood of invasion by just 10-20%, it’s certainly worthwhile.
  - simonh 3y ago
    The Yuan has lost 7% of it's value against the Dollar in the last 3 months. The fact is the Dollar is incredibly strong, it's up over 6% on a year ago. Yes trade in marginal currencies like the Yuan is up because Russia is desperate, they will trade in anything right now, but this is all small change. It's easy to double transactions when they start from such a pitifully small level to start with. Demand for dollars is as high today as ever.
    - ren_engineer 3y ago
      China regularly devalues the Yuan because they want it weaker to boost exports
- andreygrehov 3y ago
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-effort-to-ditch-the-dollar-a8111457 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-...
  - kasey_junk 3y ago
    Russia _has_ to use the yuan but that’s a far cry from “everyone”. China just paid for their first boat of yuan settled LG on the open market 20 days ago. After 6 years of offering it on their exchange. Their meeting with the Saudi’s last month came with non-committal statements, again, 6 years after they first started. I think the yuan becoming more involved in the energy trade is inevitable, they are the largest energy importer in the world and a major economy. It may have even been accelerated by the sanctions on Iran and Russia. But to say that “no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore” is a ludicrous statement (probably one that comes from the posters hopes not the facts). And adding the petroyuan to the mix is more dangerous to the Chinese currency than to the dollar. It immediately becomes imminently arbitrage-able in ways it can’t be currently due to currency controls. The Chinese government has been de-liberalizing their currency because they are worried what the markets will do to it. That’s not to mention their treasury exposure, trade surpluses and the Middle Eastern states currency pegs. A de-dollarization of the energy market will make it less efficient and may cause some rebalancing of currency reserves, but it will drive all settlement currencies to free market parity which is good for western currencies and bad for Chinese and Russian ones.
    - andreygrehov 3y ago
      I agree that "no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore" is an overblown statement. However, the de-dollarization process was started in 2014 and will keep getting stronger. This matches the recent leaks (as well as the video confirmation by François Hollande - the former President of France), that the 2014 coup in Ukraine was staged and sponsored by the US. As a Ukrainian, I tend to believe that a good portion of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine is driven by the de-dollarization fears of the US. The global superpower country is basically losing its main leverage, which is, in my personal opinion, a huge deal. While the mainstream media keeps it all super positive, I think the US did a lot of miscalculations within the past several years. And honestly, something tells me that Putin will outplay them all. The guy is extremely smart and it's foolish to downplay him and say he is not. We shall see.
simonh 3y ago
It's getting hard to keep taking what you're posting here seriously. It's so wildly over the horizon from reality, it's hard to see the point of replying. There is zero threat to the dollar. Demand for dollars is higher than ever, and it's still the primary currency for the oil trade, and pretty much any international trade. The recent economic instability has, as always happens, lead investors to flee to stability. That's the dollar, which is why it's up 6.6% over the last year. What we have to show for the last year is utterly humiliating the Russian military, successfully helping Ukraine repel an assault on their capital, and push back the Russian army twice since in significant territorial losses. The west has never been more united, NATO is stronger than ever. The AUKUS pact and US-European alignment on Taiwan has solidified, despite typical French squirming, but they'll come around. They always do. It's not like the economic picture is all roses, far from it, but that was happening already. The main achievement is that the fantasies Putin had of rolling back NATO are dead in a ditch, and I think the chances of a Chinese attack on Taiwan in the coming decade are half or less what they were a year ago.

boc 3y ago

Cite your sources for the claim that “no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore” The West has stood up to a blatant land-grab invasion and has armed Ukrainians with the means to defend themselves effectively. Decimating the Russian military without firing a shot is objectively a NATO victory, regardless of the ultimate outcome.

ren_engineer 3y ago
the ham-fisted SWIFT ban was the real mistake and that is what's driving countries away from the dollar more than anything. Removing Russia from SWIFT was the financial equivalent of launching nukes and will be seen as a major mistake long term China's competitor to SWIFT has doubled in transaction volume since the sanctions and is growing fast - https://www.ft.com/content/6d5bbdbc-9f5d-41b2-ba80-7d8ac3973cf3 https://www.ft.com/content/6d5bbdbc-9f5d-41b2-ba80-7d8ac3973...
- boc 3y ago
  Russia’s economy is smaller and less diverse than the state of New York. People treat Russia as a near-peer when they are in reality a backwater gas station strapped to a cold-war era nuclear triad. The fact that their military can’t defeat ukraine is absolutely baffling, but indicative of how rotten that country has become. Cutting them off from SWIFT isn’t a nuke in the new financial Cold War. It’s the consequence of the path Russia chose when they started this incredibly stupid invasion. Framing western reactions to Russian stupidity as “the real mistake” shows that you aren’t paying enough attention. The US threw down the gauntlet against an unimportant Russian invasion to ensure China gets the message that the United States is ready for economic warfare over Taiwan. If that action decreases the likelihood of invasion by just 10-20%, it’s certainly worthwhile.
- simonh 3y ago
  The Yuan has lost 7% of it's value against the Dollar in the last 3 months. The fact is the Dollar is incredibly strong, it's up over 6% on a year ago. Yes trade in marginal currencies like the Yuan is up because Russia is desperate, they will trade in anything right now, but this is all small change. It's easy to double transactions when they start from such a pitifully small level to start with. Demand for dollars is as high today as ever.
  - ren_engineer 3y ago
    China regularly devalues the Yuan because they want it weaker to boost exports
andreygrehov 3y ago
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-effort-to-ditch-the-dollar-a8111457 https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-turns-to-chinas-yuan-in-...
- kasey_junk 3y ago
  Russia _has_ to use the yuan but that’s a far cry from “everyone”. China just paid for their first boat of yuan settled LG on the open market 20 days ago. After 6 years of offering it on their exchange. Their meeting with the Saudi’s last month came with non-committal statements, again, 6 years after they first started. I think the yuan becoming more involved in the energy trade is inevitable, they are the largest energy importer in the world and a major economy. It may have even been accelerated by the sanctions on Iran and Russia. But to say that “no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore” is a ludicrous statement (probably one that comes from the posters hopes not the facts). And adding the petroyuan to the mix is more dangerous to the Chinese currency than to the dollar. It immediately becomes imminently arbitrage-able in ways it can’t be currently due to currency controls. The Chinese government has been de-liberalizing their currency because they are worried what the markets will do to it. That’s not to mention their treasury exposure, trade surpluses and the Middle Eastern states currency pegs. A de-dollarization of the energy market will make it less efficient and may cause some rebalancing of currency reserves, but it will drive all settlement currencies to free market parity which is good for western currencies and bad for Chinese and Russian ones.
  - andreygrehov 3y ago
    I agree that "no one is paying for oil in dollars anymore" is an overblown statement. However, the de-dollarization process was started in 2014 and will keep getting stronger. This matches the recent leaks (as well as the video confirmation by François Hollande - the former President of France), that the 2014 coup in Ukraine was staged and sponsored by the US. As a Ukrainian, I tend to believe that a good portion of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine is driven by the de-dollarization fears of the US. The global superpower country is basically losing its main leverage, which is, in my personal opinion, a huge deal. While the mainstream media keeps it all super positive, I think the US did a lot of miscalculations within the past several years. And honestly, something tells me that Putin will outplay them all. The guy is extremely smart and it's foolish to downplay him and say he is not. We shall see.

simonh 3y ago

It's getting hard to keep taking what you're posting here seriously. It's so wildly over the horizon from reality, it's hard to see the point of replying. There is zero threat to the dollar. Demand for dollars is higher than ever, and it's still the primary currency for the oil trade, and pretty much any international trade. The recent economic instability has, as always happens, lead investors to flee to stability. That's the dollar, which is why it's up 6.6% over the last year. What we have to show for the last year is utterly humiliating the Russian military, successfully helping Ukraine repel an assault on their capital, and push back the Russian army twice since in significant territorial losses. The west has never been more united, NATO is stronger than ever. The AUKUS pact and US-European alignment on Taiwan has solidified, despite typical French squirming, but they'll come around. They always do. It's not like the economic picture is all roses, far from it, but that was happening already. The main achievement is that the fantasies Putin had of rolling back NATO are dead in a ditch, and I think the chances of a Chinese attack on Taiwan in the coming decade are half or less what they were a year ago.