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I really hope this does not affect their current mode of operation. The reason I bought my Yubikeys in the first place were the one off purchase cost and the pr

I really hope this does not affect their current mode of operation. The reason I bought my Yubikeys in the first place were the one off purchase cost and the promise that the keys would do their job without me having to interact with Yubico from that point onwards. This has worked great so far! Now with shareholders in the mix I fear they will try to find recurring income models to increase profits. I guess we'll just have to see.

belter 3y ago
As somebody who just bought some keys last week for the same exact reasons, I share the same exact concerns. Why this need to always make more and more money? Do one thing, do it right, keep your customers happy, get your money, enjoy your life...
- flandish 3y ago
  This “why” is the ever expanding nature of capitalism.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Do you expect your retirement savings to earn a minimum of x% per year? What is that x%?
  - belter 3y ago
    I expect a company to turn and stay profitable, by doing their core business, prioritizing product quality, customer service and sustainable development. Not to end up as an over leveraged financial construct riding on extracting more and more of their customers. Optimize the business quality not the shareholders returns.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Would you (or do you) invest in that company over a different one whose share prices appreciate by a greater amount? Would you accept less compensation if your employer cannot keep up with competitors?
      - belter 3y ago
        I comment on the decisions of the company management/ownership, not on the investment criteria of users of the stock market. Yubico is free to do what they want with their business model. As an existing Yubico customer, I will be taking my business somewhere else, if they deviate from my priorities. They had a nice thing going on, and I am suggesting they consider their next steps. I know I will now keep them under increased scrutiny.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        > I comment on the decisions of the company management/ownership, not on the investment criteria of users of the stock market. The purpose of my questioning is to shine light on the fact that these two things are related, which answers your original question of > Why this need to always make more and more money? I am sure Yubico’s owners and employees also want to maximize their compensation, but the fact that there are many investors in the public market pretty much only looking at ROI is what enables the business model of milking users.
      - nly 3y ago
        This is a strange argument. A profitable company that isn't growing (selling more stuff, hiring more people, etc) can have a stable (low) P/E and still pay a nice dividend.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        The point is that when you go to invest your money for your retirement, you are going to pick whichever business’s shares give you the highest ROI. You, as a shareholder, are not optimizing for > keep your customers happy, get your money, enjoy your life... So why would you expect businesses to behave in a way other than maximizing ROI?
        unethical_ban 3y ago
        An excellent teardown of modern capitalism.
- fra 3y ago
  Don't you expect to make more and more money as throughout your life as well?
  - callalex 3y ago
    My goal is to do less work for enough money. Letting yubico chug along without growth would accomplish that for me if I was the owner.
    - selectodude 3y ago
      Yubico is pretty well owned by VC firms that want their money back. By taking outside money, you're beholden to outside influence. Yubico can't buy out their investors, so they have to raise money some other way in order to do so. In this case, public markets.
  - belter 3y ago
    Of course. But additional compensation, sometimes brings forced compromises in the form of increased risk, or tramping the core values that made you start in the first place.
  - myself248 3y ago
    I expect to continue working as I continue making money, though. It's not like I put out a thing and expect it to support me forever with some magical recurring stream of milking whomever.
  - bcrosby95 3y ago
    In real terms, I make enough money. The only reason I want to make "more and more" is to cover inflation. If you asked me to choose between that while remaining customer focused, vs 3x what I make while screwing over my customers, the choice is easy. Other than providing for me and my family, I like creating things that make other people's lives easier over buying fancy cars and vacation homes.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
red_admiral 3y ago
How would that model work considering the key is a piece of hardware, built to implement an open standard (at least for the U2F mode)? There's no "key phone home" phase in U2F. Also, though I would miss yubikeys if they went under like this, in practice I could switch to google titan or something else and it wouldn't be the end of the world.
- snorremd 3y ago
  The current keys will of course work as before. It is more that their new offerings might change this model all together by tying authentication of the key into some cloud service requiring non-standard drivers. Probably unfounded fears as this would make the keys less attractive to their user base. Yes, there are competitors. But I really don't want to be reliant on Google as a company. I guess Solo Keys and Nitro Keys could be good alternatives, but I really feel Yubico has a great reputation as far as hardware token companies go.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > I really feel Yubico has a great reputation as far as hardware token companies go. They do. Or did. With this move, though, the "reputation score" has to reset and be considered neutral until we see what the new behavior will be.
- ckdarby 3y ago
  Cross key syncing service. You plug both yubikeys in. Authenticate on both keys using the tool and then you're able to transfer/backup. Corporate management offerings around Yubikeys, inventories, call back home to renew an expiry if the yubikey itself when touched should give out the information. Trust me, if Yubikey hires me and goes IPO it is all downhill but the company will make a boatload more money. Every company I have worked for I've found significant ways of increasing margins and EBITDA.
  - labcomputer 3y ago
    > Cross key syncing service. Can’t work with FIDO/U2F, I’m afraid. The protocol works a little differently than most people expect, which is what allows the hardware token to “store” an unlimited number of auth credentials. What really happens at auth time is that the server (the one you are trying to authenticate to) sends a crypto package including the challenge and a key used to sign the challenge to the token. (That signing key was generated at enrollment time and encrypted using the token’s private key). The token then uses its internal private key to decrypt the signing key sent by the server, sign the challenge and send back the signed challenge. So there is no way to transfer credentials because the credentials literally aren’t in the token (they’re stored—in encrypted form—on the servers you log in to). The only way that transfer could maybe work is by copying the token’s private key… but that kind of defeats the purpose of a security token.

belter 3y ago

As somebody who just bought some keys last week for the same exact reasons, I share the same exact concerns. Why this need to always make more and more money? Do one thing, do it right, keep your customers happy, get your money, enjoy your life...

flandish 3y ago
This “why” is the ever expanding nature of capitalism.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Do you expect your retirement savings to earn a minimum of x% per year? What is that x%?
- belter 3y ago
  I expect a company to turn and stay profitable, by doing their core business, prioritizing product quality, customer service and sustainable development. Not to end up as an over leveraged financial construct riding on extracting more and more of their customers. Optimize the business quality not the shareholders returns.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Would you (or do you) invest in that company over a different one whose share prices appreciate by a greater amount? Would you accept less compensation if your employer cannot keep up with competitors?
    - belter 3y ago
      I comment on the decisions of the company management/ownership, not on the investment criteria of users of the stock market. Yubico is free to do what they want with their business model. As an existing Yubico customer, I will be taking my business somewhere else, if they deviate from my priorities. They had a nice thing going on, and I am suggesting they consider their next steps. I know I will now keep them under increased scrutiny.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        > I comment on the decisions of the company management/ownership, not on the investment criteria of users of the stock market. The purpose of my questioning is to shine light on the fact that these two things are related, which answers your original question of > Why this need to always make more and more money? I am sure Yubico’s owners and employees also want to maximize their compensation, but the fact that there are many investors in the public market pretty much only looking at ROI is what enables the business model of milking users.
    - nly 3y ago
      This is a strange argument. A profitable company that isn't growing (selling more stuff, hiring more people, etc) can have a stable (low) P/E and still pay a nice dividend.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        The point is that when you go to invest your money for your retirement, you are going to pick whichever business’s shares give you the highest ROI. You, as a shareholder, are not optimizing for > keep your customers happy, get your money, enjoy your life... So why would you expect businesses to behave in a way other than maximizing ROI?
        unethical_ban 3y ago
        An excellent teardown of modern capitalism.
fra 3y ago
Don't you expect to make more and more money as throughout your life as well?
- callalex 3y ago
  My goal is to do less work for enough money. Letting yubico chug along without growth would accomplish that for me if I was the owner.
  - selectodude 3y ago
    Yubico is pretty well owned by VC firms that want their money back. By taking outside money, you're beholden to outside influence. Yubico can't buy out their investors, so they have to raise money some other way in order to do so. In this case, public markets.
- belter 3y ago
  Of course. But additional compensation, sometimes brings forced compromises in the form of increased risk, or tramping the core values that made you start in the first place.
- myself248 3y ago
  I expect to continue working as I continue making money, though. It's not like I put out a thing and expect it to support me forever with some magical recurring stream of milking whomever.
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  In real terms, I make enough money. The only reason I want to make "more and more" is to cover inflation. If you asked me to choose between that while remaining customer focused, vs 3x what I make while screwing over my customers, the choice is easy. Other than providing for me and my family, I like creating things that make other people's lives easier over buying fancy cars and vacation homes.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

red_admiral 3y ago

How would that model work considering the key is a piece of hardware, built to implement an open standard (at least for the U2F mode)? There's no "key phone home" phase in U2F. Also, though I would miss yubikeys if they went under like this, in practice I could switch to google titan or something else and it wouldn't be the end of the world.

snorremd 3y ago
The current keys will of course work as before. It is more that their new offerings might change this model all together by tying authentication of the key into some cloud service requiring non-standard drivers. Probably unfounded fears as this would make the keys less attractive to their user base. Yes, there are competitors. But I really don't want to be reliant on Google as a company. I guess Solo Keys and Nitro Keys could be good alternatives, but I really feel Yubico has a great reputation as far as hardware token companies go.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > I really feel Yubico has a great reputation as far as hardware token companies go. They do. Or did. With this move, though, the "reputation score" has to reset and be considered neutral until we see what the new behavior will be.
ckdarby 3y ago
Cross key syncing service. You plug both yubikeys in. Authenticate on both keys using the tool and then you're able to transfer/backup. Corporate management offerings around Yubikeys, inventories, call back home to renew an expiry if the yubikey itself when touched should give out the information. Trust me, if Yubikey hires me and goes IPO it is all downhill but the company will make a boatload more money. Every company I have worked for I've found significant ways of increasing margins and EBITDA.
- labcomputer 3y ago
  > Cross key syncing service. Can’t work with FIDO/U2F, I’m afraid. The protocol works a little differently than most people expect, which is what allows the hardware token to “store” an unlimited number of auth credentials. What really happens at auth time is that the server (the one you are trying to authenticate to) sends a crypto package including the challenge and a key used to sign the challenge to the token. (That signing key was generated at enrollment time and encrypted using the token’s private key). The token then uses its internal private key to decrypt the signing key sent by the server, sign the challenge and send back the signed challenge. So there is no way to transfer credentials because the credentials literally aren’t in the token (they’re stored—in encrypted form—on the servers you log in to). The only way that transfer could maybe work is by copying the token’s private key… but that kind of defeats the purpose of a security token.