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This is hacker news, but I find it appalling that there's surprisingly less noise about the organized effort to subvert democracy overnight. If Trump had succee

by b0sk 3y ago

This is hacker news, but I find it appalling that there's surprisingly less noise about the organized effort to subvert democracy overnight. If Trump had succeeded, do you really think there'd be any meaningful elections in the future? My hope is the most hackers are outraged but don't comment here.

mikeyouse 3y ago
There were a frightening number of people repeating the same obviously false claims here post-election. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a drug.
- ChicagoDave 3y ago
  Nah. Just Russian trolls.
  - andrewinardeer 3y ago
    It is a shame that in any number of forums these days that if someone expresses an opinion that counters someone else's they are labelled a "Russian troll". We all know that foreign interference is a genuine concern, however, an opinion that appears to be right of centre doesn't always equate to it being grown in a Russian troll farm.
    - ChicagoDave 3y ago
      No, but the prevalence of such accounts has overwhelmed all forums and social media. There’s no good way to differentiate you from a troll.
      - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        So? Respond to people with reasoned arguments and it doesn't matter who they are. Trolls win when people think they have to achieve purity of thought - to drive away anyone who believes wrong-think even at the cost of the forum itself. Triggering forums to play purity games and cull the insufficiently aligned is a troll victory. That doesn't mean you should let politics bleed into every other thread, but in a politics thread just move past the idea of needing to censor people to win.
        ChicagoDave 3y ago
        Honestly? Most conservative discourse has gone down a pretty terrible rabbit hole. I’m happy to discuss economics, public safety, education, tax policy, military spending, healthcare reform, and many other government centric issues. But all I see is disinformation, especially folks glued to cable news (they’re all profit centric with very sporadic integrity) that have never traveled outside the states, and have had no contact with a diverse, pluralistic society. I see a lack of empathy for anyone that’s “different”. I’ve watched our middle class get decimated by trickle down economics lies and blaming poor people for being poor. I’ve watched the invention of healthcare for mass profit from Reagan’s presidency that’s made it nearly impossible for anyone to just relax. I’ve watched college go from a Pell grant and a 10-hr/week job to the price of a house, also from Reagan’s presidency. I’ve watch gun ownership rise to hundreds of millions sold including weapons that liquify human life and a party that can watch the outcome of child massacres and just look the other way. I don’t need to sensor anyone. You can talk all you want. But I’m tired of the lies, the greed, the misogyny, and the hate. I honestly don’t have a clue what non-liberals believe anymore. I can’t make sense of any of it. Show me a conservative that actually cares about all of humanity and not just themselves.
        LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        I don't think that it's always a lib/con issue, even if it gets played that way on the news, and I think the actual conservative side is often a lot more focused on kindness and safety than they are played. Even where I disagree with them (and libs too) I can often find happy middle-ground that both sides, divorced from their TV-applied baggage, can appreciate. It helps that I'm usually not in the USA and speaking about things outside of their rep/dem news-based framing. > I’ve watch gun ownership rise to hundreds of millions sold including weapons that liquify human life and a party that can watch the outcome of child massacres and just look the other way. I think this is a good example. In Canada there was a mass shooting and the government responded with a huge list of firearms restrictions. Ammo, magazines, models of guns, etc. Like 1400+ restrictions. But none of that would have impacted the guns the shooter had, which were all obtained illegally across the border. What it would have done is left even more country families without defense and made it easier for the shooter to go house to house. But it played well in the cities and was used to create an artificial lib/con divide in what is fundamentally a city/country issue. None of the "don't ban guns" people I spoke to wanted anyone to get shot, but they didn't want laws that won't help. We know that the vast majority of guns used in crime are illegal and that they come from the USA, not via stolen legal guns, so no amount of legal firearms crackdown would impact their numbers. If those restrictions were separately proposed when there wasn't a shooting some of them might have gotten some support, but when presented as a knee-jerk solution where they obviously wouldn't work there was a lot of pushback. Nobody wanted more shootings, especially the conservative side who had suffered in them, but they weren't willing to have their tragedy turned into a political defeat as well when it wouldn't even help. > the misogyny I'm pretty sure you mean abortion. I'm pro-choice and the bans scare me, but I see women getting shit on from both sides of the aisle. Men are being put in women's prisons: https://fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/ https://fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/ Even if they're baby rapers: https://torontosun.com/news/national/hunter-trans-killers-baby-rapists-terrifying-female-inmates https://torontosun.com/news/national/hunter-trans-killers-ba... And when they abuse women, the female inmates face extended punishment for describing them as male: https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/ https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong... Also sports: https://rileygaines.com/ https://rileygaines.com/ https://shewon.org/ https://shewon.org/ And violent terrorism against peaceful protest: https://archive.is/SrILu https://archive.is/SrILu https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/former-ncaa-swimmer-riley-gaines-assault-san-francisco-state-university/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/former-ncaa-swimmer-riley-... Both sides of the Dem/Rep fight are absolutely abusing women and women's rights, and while they're fighting against the other's excesses it's generally not to help women but to score points.
paxys 3y ago
If you have spent a meaningful amount of time on this site over the last few years you will have seen that the general user sentiment has shifted pretty far right. The standard discussion isn't too far from what you'd come across on a Fox News/Elon Musk/Infowars/Joe Rogan forum.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  I completely disagree with almost all of this assertion, based on my experience. There is an entire spectrum of political views, a good example would be stories about incarceration and homelessness which result in fairly left swinging opinions and very little blaming of the people involved.
  - nicpottier 3y ago
    I agree that HN is still pretty liberal but I also agree with GP that the swing to the right in the past few years has been very real.
  - rongenre 3y ago
    There were a ton of people here really into Ivermectin in the late 2020's.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
      I’d wonder if that was sample bias, people not into it were probably less vocal about their opinion. I do find the correlation between vaccine hesitancy and conservative political views interesting though.
      - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        It feels like our current political parties are the result of force-teaming and meaningless labels creating unhappy and fragile alliances ready to split. Imho this would be great as the manufactured left/right dichotomy never helped anyone. Is a parent far-right for demanding high standards from drugs they put into their children, or a leftist for not just accepting big-pharma's word? I personally saw a lot of people be ejected from "the left" because of questioning the medical response to Covid. Many different circumstance, but they'd all run into the mandatory acceptance of the message. Some had been vaccine "wary" before and remained that way, others were pro-vax but doubted the safety given its minimal testing time, etc. All of these people were your average west-coast hippy type and they're now being told they're allied with unite-the-right anti-jew stuff in the USA. I can't wait until the new affiliations drop and we can ditch the legacy groupings.
jimbob45 3y ago
Trump's specific claims were wrong but elections are readily hackable using a variety of methods. There are numerous YouTube videos showing how to hack election machines that are in use today. It's so frustrating that the DNC shoots down any question of election security as an issue now when we were previously so very close to universally moving to paper ballots in the US.
libraryatnight 3y ago
The trouble with gauging HN's actual opinion on things is that there's a lot of people here who just want to argue and play semantic games. I remember when Roe was overturned, people would make upset comments obviously just looking to commiserate and feel outraged, and people who agreed it was wrong in their own main comments would 'play devil's advocate' for funsies anyway. By the end of the threads it sure didn't seem like they were just playing a side, and they're not thinking about anyone else reading the thread and coming away convinced by their debate exercise. They're bored and took issue with an analogy.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 3y ago
  The ochlocracy is real.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

by b0sk 3y ago

mikeyouse 3y ago

There were a frightening number of people repeating the same obviously false claims here post-election. Motivated reasoning is a hell of a drug.

ChicagoDave 3y ago
Nah. Just Russian trolls.
- andrewinardeer 3y ago
  It is a shame that in any number of forums these days that if someone expresses an opinion that counters someone else's they are labelled a "Russian troll". We all know that foreign interference is a genuine concern, however, an opinion that appears to be right of centre doesn't always equate to it being grown in a Russian troll farm.
  - ChicagoDave 3y ago
    No, but the prevalence of such accounts has overwhelmed all forums and social media. There’s no good way to differentiate you from a troll.
    - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
      So? Respond to people with reasoned arguments and it doesn't matter who they are. Trolls win when people think they have to achieve purity of thought - to drive away anyone who believes wrong-think even at the cost of the forum itself. Triggering forums to play purity games and cull the insufficiently aligned is a troll victory. That doesn't mean you should let politics bleed into every other thread, but in a politics thread just move past the idea of needing to censor people to win.
      - ChicagoDave 3y ago
        Honestly? Most conservative discourse has gone down a pretty terrible rabbit hole. I’m happy to discuss economics, public safety, education, tax policy, military spending, healthcare reform, and many other government centric issues. But all I see is disinformation, especially folks glued to cable news (they’re all profit centric with very sporadic integrity) that have never traveled outside the states, and have had no contact with a diverse, pluralistic society. I see a lack of empathy for anyone that’s “different”. I’ve watched our middle class get decimated by trickle down economics lies and blaming poor people for being poor. I’ve watched the invention of healthcare for mass profit from Reagan’s presidency that’s made it nearly impossible for anyone to just relax. I’ve watched college go from a Pell grant and a 10-hr/week job to the price of a house, also from Reagan’s presidency. I’ve watch gun ownership rise to hundreds of millions sold including weapons that liquify human life and a party that can watch the outcome of child massacres and just look the other way. I don’t need to sensor anyone. You can talk all you want. But I’m tired of the lies, the greed, the misogyny, and the hate. I honestly don’t have a clue what non-liberals believe anymore. I can’t make sense of any of it. Show me a conservative that actually cares about all of humanity and not just themselves.
        LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
        I don't think that it's always a lib/con issue, even if it gets played that way on the news, and I think the actual conservative side is often a lot more focused on kindness and safety than they are played. Even where I disagree with them (and libs too) I can often find happy middle-ground that both sides, divorced from their TV-applied baggage, can appreciate. It helps that I'm usually not in the USA and speaking about things outside of their rep/dem news-based framing. > I’ve watch gun ownership rise to hundreds of millions sold including weapons that liquify human life and a party that can watch the outcome of child massacres and just look the other way. I think this is a good example. In Canada there was a mass shooting and the government responded with a huge list of firearms restrictions. Ammo, magazines, models of guns, etc. Like 1400+ restrictions. But none of that would have impacted the guns the shooter had, which were all obtained illegally across the border. What it would have done is left even more country families without defense and made it easier for the shooter to go house to house. But it played well in the cities and was used to create an artificial lib/con divide in what is fundamentally a city/country issue. None of the "don't ban guns" people I spoke to wanted anyone to get shot, but they didn't want laws that won't help. We know that the vast majority of guns used in crime are illegal and that they come from the USA, not via stolen legal guns, so no amount of legal firearms crackdown would impact their numbers. If those restrictions were separately proposed when there wasn't a shooting some of them might have gotten some support, but when presented as a knee-jerk solution where they obviously wouldn't work there was a lot of pushback. Nobody wanted more shootings, especially the conservative side who had suffered in them, but they weren't willing to have their tragedy turned into a political defeat as well when it wouldn't even help. > the misogyny I'm pretty sure you mean abortion. I'm pro-choice and the bans scare me, but I see women getting shit on from both sides of the aisle. Men are being put in women's prisons: https://fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/ https://fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/prisons/ Even if they're baby rapers: https://torontosun.com/news/national/hunter-trans-killers-baby-rapists-terrifying-female-inmates https://torontosun.com/news/national/hunter-trans-killers-ba... And when they abuse women, the female inmates face extended punishment for describing them as male: https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/ https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong... Also sports: https://rileygaines.com/ https://rileygaines.com/ https://shewon.org/ https://shewon.org/ And violent terrorism against peaceful protest: https://archive.is/SrILu https://archive.is/SrILu https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/former-ncaa-swimmer-riley-gaines-assault-san-francisco-state-university/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/07/us/former-ncaa-swimmer-riley-... Both sides of the Dem/Rep fight are absolutely abusing women and women's rights, and while they're fighting against the other's excesses it's generally not to help women but to score points.

paxys 3y ago

If you have spent a meaningful amount of time on this site over the last few years you will have seen that the general user sentiment has shifted pretty far right. The standard discussion isn't too far from what you'd come across on a Fox News/Elon Musk/Infowars/Joe Rogan forum.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
I completely disagree with almost all of this assertion, based on my experience. There is an entire spectrum of political views, a good example would be stories about incarceration and homelessness which result in fairly left swinging opinions and very little blaming of the people involved.
- nicpottier 3y ago
  I agree that HN is still pretty liberal but I also agree with GP that the swing to the right in the past few years has been very real.
- rongenre 3y ago
  There were a ton of people here really into Ivermectin in the late 2020's.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
    I’d wonder if that was sample bias, people not into it were probably less vocal about their opinion. I do find the correlation between vaccine hesitancy and conservative political views interesting though.
    - LawTalkingGuy 3y ago
      It feels like our current political parties are the result of force-teaming and meaningless labels creating unhappy and fragile alliances ready to split. Imho this would be great as the manufactured left/right dichotomy never helped anyone. Is a parent far-right for demanding high standards from drugs they put into their children, or a leftist for not just accepting big-pharma's word? I personally saw a lot of people be ejected from "the left" because of questioning the medical response to Covid. Many different circumstance, but they'd all run into the mandatory acceptance of the message. Some had been vaccine "wary" before and remained that way, others were pro-vax but doubted the safety given its minimal testing time, etc. All of these people were your average west-coast hippy type and they're now being told they're allied with unite-the-right anti-jew stuff in the USA. I can't wait until the new affiliations drop and we can ditch the legacy groupings.

jimbob45 3y ago

Trump's specific claims were wrong but elections are readily hackable using a variety of methods. There are numerous YouTube videos showing how to hack election machines that are in use today. It's so frustrating that the DNC shoots down any question of election security as an issue now when we were previously so very close to universally moving to paper ballots in the US.

libraryatnight 3y ago

The trouble with gauging HN's actual opinion on things is that there's a lot of people here who just want to argue and play semantic games. I remember when Roe was overturned, people would make upset comments obviously just looking to commiserate and feel outraged, and people who agreed it was wrong in their own main comments would 'play devil's advocate' for funsies anyway. By the end of the threads it sure didn't seem like they were just playing a side, and they're not thinking about anyone else reading the thread and coming away convinced by their debate exercise. They're bored and took issue with an analogy.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 3y ago
The ochlocracy is real.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]