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The really tragic part of this whole affair is that the design for Ariane 6 wasn't finalized until 2016 - after Falcon 9 landed for the first time. At the time

The really tragic part of this whole affair is that the design for Ariane 6 wasn't finalized until 2016 - after Falcon 9 landed for the first time. At the time, ArianeGroup (particularly Stéphane Israël) shrugged it off as irrelevant; such a position has since been shown to be foolhardy - to the extent that the designs for Ariane 7 looks like a methane powered semi-clone of Falcon 9. In practical terms, ArianeGroup lost an entire design cycle due to bad decision making. When the next Ariane is done it'll have to compete in a world with not just Falcon 9, but 2-4 of Starship (SpaceX), Neutron (Rocket Lab), Terran R (Relativity), and New Glenn (Blue Origin).

mafribe 4y ago
Note that Stéphane Israël is a classic French civil servant: a historian by education, and not knowledgable about technology.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  ENA, especially. An X would have been better suited within the usual CEO pool, I think. But of course he was chief of staff of an important Minister before he was appointed CEO of Arianespace so you know... Within this system Arianespace and the EU were never to be innovators and disruptors, and still aren't geared to catch up. In a way, this is a bit Nokia vs Apple unfolding in the space sector.
  - ur-whale 4y ago
    > ENA, especially. Much that is wrong and has been wrong with France in the last 50 years can almost always be traced back to this ghastly institution. The folks who graduate from ENA are wildly disconnected from reality, especially when it comes to the economy and technology. They unfortunately are also a tight knit mafia that pretty much controls the country and are dragging it down into the abyss at a 100 mph.
ur-whale 4y ago
> ArianeGroup lost an entire design cycle due to bad decision making When you don't operate with market pressure, there is no such thing as bad decision making.
solarkraft 4y ago
I'm happy that at least they're now trying to catch up. If they'll only stay one cycle behind, that's not even that bad. My worry is that they're not going to be able to maintain that distance ...
panick21_ 4y ago
Ariane 6 was authorized by 2014, and they couldn't really change it politically speaking. Whatever Israël personal feeling, he had no power to change the design.

mafribe 4y ago

Note that Stéphane Israël is a classic French civil servant: a historian by education, and not knowledgable about technology.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
ENA, especially. An X would have been better suited within the usual CEO pool, I think. But of course he was chief of staff of an important Minister before he was appointed CEO of Arianespace so you know... Within this system Arianespace and the EU were never to be innovators and disruptors, and still aren't geared to catch up. In a way, this is a bit Nokia vs Apple unfolding in the space sector.
- ur-whale 4y ago
  > ENA, especially. Much that is wrong and has been wrong with France in the last 50 years can almost always be traced back to this ghastly institution. The folks who graduate from ENA are wildly disconnected from reality, especially when it comes to the economy and technology. They unfortunately are also a tight knit mafia that pretty much controls the country and are dragging it down into the abyss at a 100 mph.

ur-whale 4y ago

> ArianeGroup lost an entire design cycle due to bad decision making When you don't operate with market pressure, there is no such thing as bad decision making.

solarkraft 4y ago

I'm happy that at least they're now trying to catch up. If they'll only stay one cycle behind, that's not even that bad. My worry is that they're not going to be able to maintain that distance ...

panick21_ 4y ago

Ariane 6 was authorized by 2014, and they couldn't really change it politically speaking. Whatever Israël personal feeling, he had no power to change the design.