4 ms·

In addition to what other have said, the definition of "friends" may change with time and context. Like yourself, my family was super "close" to our neighbours

In addition to what other have said, the definition of "friends" may change with time and context. Like yourself, my family was super "close" to our neighbours when I was growing up. But they weren't even remotely "friends" in the sense that I might use the word today - there were zero common interests; significantly different backgrounds, world perspectives, priorities, lifestyles; they had little to talk about other than the prosaic; less superficially and more importantly, they would not be particularly honest or open or intimate with each other within the parameters of social norms. But what they were was utterly dependable to each other - both households knew that they'd support each other - through the winter and power outages and minor and major inconveniences that comes in life. There's certainly huge value in that and I think it's certainly possibly to establish such relationships with neighbours today, though it's hugely luck of the draw; but will that satisfy the need we (or at least some of us) have for close friends with open, honest and sharing relationships, partaking of interesting discussion and activities, and relationships surviving through geographical & lifestyle changes?

nonethewiser 4y ago
> Like yourself, my family was super "close" to our neighbours when I was growing up. But they weren't even remotely "friends" in the sense that I might use the word today - there were zero common interests; significantly different backgrounds, world perspectives, priorities, lifestyles; they had little to talk about other than the prosaic; less superficially and more importantly, they would not be particularly honest or open or intimate with each other within the parameters of social norms. But what they were was utterly dependable to each other - both households knew that they'd support each other - through the winter and power outages and minor and major inconveniences that comes in life. That’s a valid distinction. But if they had that level of care for each other, I would argue the major reason they didn’t share dinner together, play lawn games, or watch football on sundays was because they didn’t want to. But the author of the article does cite that interest.
kortilla 4y ago
> less superficially and more importantly, they would not be particularly honest or open or intimate with each other within the parameters of social norms This is more of a product of the time. My parents weren’t that open with close friends either back in the 70s when I was growing up. Fast forward to today and my friends are all quite open about personal things. And the one I know who is friends with his neighbor is just as open with the neighbor. Back then it was just socially unacceptable to talk about lots of mental health stuff or anything near it.
- irrational 4y ago
  This is probably a generational thing. I’m GenX. Growing up I never heard anyone talk about being depressed, having anxiety, etc. If someone today started trying to talk to me about mental health issues, I’d probably just have a deer in the headlights look since I have no clue how to respond to that sort of topic.
  - kennyloginz 4y ago
    Definitely not a generational thing. GenX was defined by expressing depression. Nirvana, nine inch nails, the cure.
    - KptMarchewa 4y ago
      Things present at media does not mean people act like this.
    - irrational 4y ago
      I attended a high school with 4,000 students and had lots of friends and even more acquaintances. I never heard anyone discuss anything mental health related. Ditto at college and graduate school. Ditto in the workplace until within the last decade or so.
  - watwut 4y ago
    They used alcohol and drugs to deal with those a lot more. Also, they had higher juvenile criminality rates.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Yup; definitely a cultural/generational component (as well as upbringing/personal preference/development); my dad's generation, born and lived in Eastern Europe, and all of them have a physical reaction to breaching certain topics - they will literally push back in their seat trying to physically run away from discussing mental health, inner feelings, social norms & progress, etc :-) I too was born in Eastern Europe but live in Canada now (and for majority of my adulthood). Took me, dunno, 10-15 years to change some of the subtly ingrained cultural perspectives and open up. (I still get a deer in headlights look sometimes, but that's just me and my social awkwardness:)
emodendroket 4y ago
I think my “regular friends” generally were still people I had significant differences in some ways with, and our initial connections were often something incidental like having nearby dorm rooms or enjoying televised football.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
Love this analysis. I now live in a small village in rural New Mexico, and your 2nd paragraph precisely describes things here. We love our neighbors - not as people to bare our hearts to, but as people we can rely on (and they can rely on us). Yes, I do miss the sense of a deeper connection, especially since I've been fortunate to find a few (remote) friends in life where that happened from day one. But you know what, sometimes you just have to grow that over time. Before this location, I lived on an amazing block in suburban Philadelphia, where the middle of the block had five families/households (us among them) who were similarly "utterly dependable". But over time, we became closer to some of them (amidst the christmas round-robin dinners and block parties and standing around outside while raking leaves), and so last summer we were invited to a the daughter's wedding, and next month one of them might join me on a 1600 bike ride from Santa Fe to Seattle. I do like meeting people that I just immediately click with, but we should not discount the merits of long, long neighborly relationships that deepen and ripen over many years to become a different, but similarly valuable sort of friendship.
eloisant 4y ago
> I think it's certainly possibly to establish such relationships with neighbours today, though it's hugely luck of the draw It's something that is often critized as ghettoization, but that's why I think it's important to pick a neighborhood where you will find like minded-people. Usually it comes naturally as you're guided by your budget, and will naturally like the same neighborhood as your peers, but it can be tempting to get a bigger house for the same budget in a "less fancy" neighborhood that you would match better for you. Also, it depends on the country but it's important to pick a neighborhood where you'll be confident to send your kids to the local public school instead of having them go to a school further away. This way you ensure your kids live close to their friends.
justnotworthit 4y ago
I like to label the first "allies" and the second "friends". The "allies" category should be explored by writers as much as friends.

nonethewiser 4y ago

> Like yourself, my family was super "close" to our neighbours when I was growing up. But they weren't even remotely "friends" in the sense that I might use the word today - there were zero common interests; significantly different backgrounds, world perspectives, priorities, lifestyles; they had little to talk about other than the prosaic; less superficially and more importantly, they would not be particularly honest or open or intimate with each other within the parameters of social norms. But what they were was utterly dependable to each other - both households knew that they'd support each other - through the winter and power outages and minor and major inconveniences that comes in life. That’s a valid distinction. But if they had that level of care for each other, I would argue the major reason they didn’t share dinner together, play lawn games, or watch football on sundays was because they didn’t want to. But the author of the article does cite that interest.

kortilla 4y ago

> less superficially and more importantly, they would not be particularly honest or open or intimate with each other within the parameters of social norms This is more of a product of the time. My parents weren’t that open with close friends either back in the 70s when I was growing up. Fast forward to today and my friends are all quite open about personal things. And the one I know who is friends with his neighbor is just as open with the neighbor. Back then it was just socially unacceptable to talk about lots of mental health stuff or anything near it.

irrational 4y ago
This is probably a generational thing. I’m GenX. Growing up I never heard anyone talk about being depressed, having anxiety, etc. If someone today started trying to talk to me about mental health issues, I’d probably just have a deer in the headlights look since I have no clue how to respond to that sort of topic.
- kennyloginz 4y ago
  Definitely not a generational thing. GenX was defined by expressing depression. Nirvana, nine inch nails, the cure.
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Things present at media does not mean people act like this.
  - irrational 4y ago
    I attended a high school with 4,000 students and had lots of friends and even more acquaintances. I never heard anyone discuss anything mental health related. Ditto at college and graduate school. Ditto in the workplace until within the last decade or so.
- watwut 4y ago
  They used alcohol and drugs to deal with those a lot more. Also, they had higher juvenile criminality rates.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Yup; definitely a cultural/generational component (as well as upbringing/personal preference/development); my dad's generation, born and lived in Eastern Europe, and all of them have a physical reaction to breaching certain topics - they will literally push back in their seat trying to physically run away from discussing mental health, inner feelings, social norms & progress, etc :-) I too was born in Eastern Europe but live in Canada now (and for majority of my adulthood). Took me, dunno, 10-15 years to change some of the subtly ingrained cultural perspectives and open up. (I still get a deer in headlights look sometimes, but that's just me and my social awkwardness:)

emodendroket 4y ago

I think my “regular friends” generally were still people I had significant differences in some ways with, and our initial connections were often something incidental like having nearby dorm rooms or enjoying televised football.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

Love this analysis. I now live in a small village in rural New Mexico, and your 2nd paragraph precisely describes things here. We love our neighbors - not as people to bare our hearts to, but as people we can rely on (and they can rely on us). Yes, I do miss the sense of a deeper connection, especially since I've been fortunate to find a few (remote) friends in life where that happened from day one. But you know what, sometimes you just have to grow that over time. Before this location, I lived on an amazing block in suburban Philadelphia, where the middle of the block had five families/households (us among them) who were similarly "utterly dependable". But over time, we became closer to some of them (amidst the christmas round-robin dinners and block parties and standing around outside while raking leaves), and so last summer we were invited to a the daughter's wedding, and next month one of them might join me on a 1600 bike ride from Santa Fe to Seattle. I do like meeting people that I just immediately click with, but we should not discount the merits of long, long neighborly relationships that deepen and ripen over many years to become a different, but similarly valuable sort of friendship.

eloisant 4y ago

> I think it's certainly possibly to establish such relationships with neighbours today, though it's hugely luck of the draw It's something that is often critized as ghettoization, but that's why I think it's important to pick a neighborhood where you will find like minded-people. Usually it comes naturally as you're guided by your budget, and will naturally like the same neighborhood as your peers, but it can be tempting to get a bigger house for the same budget in a "less fancy" neighborhood that you would match better for you. Also, it depends on the country but it's important to pick a neighborhood where you'll be confident to send your kids to the local public school instead of having them go to a school further away. This way you ensure your kids live close to their friends.

justnotworthit 4y ago

I like to label the first "allies" and the second "friends". The "allies" category should be explored by writers as much as friends.