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No way. That is absolute bullshit. You can tell, because they cite exactly zero studies showing some other way is better. They are looking at scores over time w

No way. That is absolute bullshit. You can tell, because they cite exactly zero studies showing some other way is better. They are looking at scores over time with no control, which can be decreasing for any other reason. Phonics based reading instruction is response to the massive scandal that already happened in the US where they tried the whole language approach, balanced instruction, three cueing, and the like with no evidence of positive impacts on literacy. Even the founder of the three cueing method accepted it is a failure. Teachers and education researchers with new books to sell don't want to accept that the boring way works better, especially for students with less support at home (where parents often use phonics to teach kids at age 2 or 3). Someone like Lucy Calkins is potentially responsible for 25% of the illiteracy in the US. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/phonics-not-whole-word-best-teaching-reading/591127/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/phonics-no... https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/is-this-the-end-of-three-cueing/2020/12 https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/is-this-the-end-of-... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/06/education/learning/schools-teaching-reading-phonics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/06/education/learning/school... https://localnewsmatters.org/2022/03/13/richmond-school-finds-success-after-overhauling-its-reading-program/ https://localnewsmatters.org/2022/03/13/richmond-school-find...

oxfordmale 4y ago
The UCL researchers are among 250 signatories to a letter which has been sent to education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, calling on the government to allow for a wider range of approaches to teaching reading, which would allow teachers to use their own judgment about which is best for their pupils. It doesn't say phonics doesn't work, it suggests phonics is only effective for a subgroup of pupils. Everyone has their own learning strategy and phonics doesn't appear to work for everyone.
- zaphar 4y ago
  There is pretty strong evidence[0] [1] [2] that phonics is a critical part of learning to read for everyone no matter who they are or what their personality is. It's not the only piece of the puzzle but if you leave it out you will handicap the student intended to or not. Without phonics when you encounter a new word you can't pronounce it. If you can't pronounce it you can't use it in conversation. You can't use it in your mental processing. If you aren't taught it you may pick up the rules of thumb eventually but you'll have done so the long hard way. You might be justifiably angry that no one showed you or your child the easy way. 1: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Advantages-of-the-Phonics-Method-for-Early-Audina-Ma%E2%80%99muroh/133e8ed931ce4dfdd38fbc106bf302324ecec0ff https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Advantages-of-the-... 2: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Ameliorating-Early-Reading-Failure-by-Integrating-Hatcher-Hulme/ec9eecf3d343859876082a37d9bb34cd2d0c0b5d https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Ameliorating-Early-Rea... 3: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effect-of-phonics-instruction-on-the-reading-of-Connelly-Johnston/94b3118a1106596f83c70471c18d5555073f391a https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effect-of-phonics-...
  - camgunz 4y ago
    You and op are both correct. The problems are teaching only phonics (which a lot of SOR advocates want) and not teaching phonics at all (which happens in a fair number of classrooms).
    - zaphar 4y ago
      Exactly. You also need to learn word definitions as well as grammar and sentence structure. Leave out any of the pieces of the puzzle and you are handicapping the student.
    - mattmcknight 4y ago
      I can't find anyone out there that advocates teaching only phonics. It's a step in the process of learning to read that, if left to teachers that were taught under a non-evidence based approach, many try to skip.
      - camgunz 4y ago
        They don't say "only teach phonics", they say "always teach phonics no matter what even if it fails a significant number of students". It's an issue of forcing teachers to do things they know won't work or aren't working. I'm not saying there aren't bad teachers, and I agree that's a problem and that the solution (get good people to be teachers and give them the autonomy to be good) depends on addressing it. But using bad teachers as a reason to strip all teachers of their autonomy is a huge step back.
        mattmcknight 4y ago
        > It's an issue of forcing teachers to do things they know won't work or aren't working. So many teachers at this point have been falsely taught that phonics doesn't work, that many skip thinking they are doing the right thing. We need them to try to teach phonics. Yes, there are some students it won't work for, such as those with hearing problems. However, those students should be in specialized programs already. For everyone without hearing problems, we need them to try.
- michaelcampbell 4y ago
  > it suggests phonics is only effective for a subgroup of pupils If that subgroup is 90+%, is it worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater? (I don't know the % here, I'm making one up as a thought experiment.)
  - oxfordmale 4y ago
    As the petition calls for, it should be left to the teachers to decide. Even if the succes rate is 90%, are you happy to throw the remaining 10% under the reading bus ?
    - mattmcknight 4y ago
      But so many teachers have been miseducated and they try to leave it out. Wyse and Bradbury at UCL are pushing non-evidence based approaches on the false authority of Margaret Meek Spencer [1] by making up a strawman of teaching only phonics, as if people that advocate teaching phonics claimed that were the only step in learning to read. [1] https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10152356/1/Wyse_The%20passion%2C%20pedagogy%20and%20politics%20of%20reading_AOP.pdf https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10152356/1/Wyse_The%20...
    - michaelcampbell 4y ago
      I'm not sure why you think this is a one or the other solution.

oxfordmale 4y ago

The UCL researchers are among 250 signatories to a letter which has been sent to education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, calling on the government to allow for a wider range of approaches to teaching reading, which would allow teachers to use their own judgment about which is best for their pupils. It doesn't say phonics doesn't work, it suggests phonics is only effective for a subgroup of pupils. Everyone has their own learning strategy and phonics doesn't appear to work for everyone.

zaphar 4y ago
There is pretty strong evidence[0] [1] [2] that phonics is a critical part of learning to read for everyone no matter who they are or what their personality is. It's not the only piece of the puzzle but if you leave it out you will handicap the student intended to or not. Without phonics when you encounter a new word you can't pronounce it. If you can't pronounce it you can't use it in conversation. You can't use it in your mental processing. If you aren't taught it you may pick up the rules of thumb eventually but you'll have done so the long hard way. You might be justifiably angry that no one showed you or your child the easy way. 1: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Advantages-of-the-Phonics-Method-for-Early-Audina-Ma%E2%80%99muroh/133e8ed931ce4dfdd38fbc106bf302324ecec0ff https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Advantages-of-the-... 2: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Ameliorating-Early-Reading-Failure-by-Integrating-Hatcher-Hulme/ec9eecf3d343859876082a37d9bb34cd2d0c0b5d https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Ameliorating-Early-Rea... 3: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effect-of-phonics-instruction-on-the-reading-of-Connelly-Johnston/94b3118a1106596f83c70471c18d5555073f391a https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effect-of-phonics-...
- camgunz 4y ago
  You and op are both correct. The problems are teaching only phonics (which a lot of SOR advocates want) and not teaching phonics at all (which happens in a fair number of classrooms).
  - zaphar 4y ago
    Exactly. You also need to learn word definitions as well as grammar and sentence structure. Leave out any of the pieces of the puzzle and you are handicapping the student.
  - mattmcknight 4y ago
    I can't find anyone out there that advocates teaching only phonics. It's a step in the process of learning to read that, if left to teachers that were taught under a non-evidence based approach, many try to skip.
    - camgunz 4y ago
      They don't say "only teach phonics", they say "always teach phonics no matter what even if it fails a significant number of students". It's an issue of forcing teachers to do things they know won't work or aren't working. I'm not saying there aren't bad teachers, and I agree that's a problem and that the solution (get good people to be teachers and give them the autonomy to be good) depends on addressing it. But using bad teachers as a reason to strip all teachers of their autonomy is a huge step back.
      - mattmcknight 4y ago
        > It's an issue of forcing teachers to do things they know won't work or aren't working. So many teachers at this point have been falsely taught that phonics doesn't work, that many skip thinking they are doing the right thing. We need them to try to teach phonics. Yes, there are some students it won't work for, such as those with hearing problems. However, those students should be in specialized programs already. For everyone without hearing problems, we need them to try.
michaelcampbell 4y ago
> it suggests phonics is only effective for a subgroup of pupils If that subgroup is 90+%, is it worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater? (I don't know the % here, I'm making one up as a thought experiment.)
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  As the petition calls for, it should be left to the teachers to decide. Even if the succes rate is 90%, are you happy to throw the remaining 10% under the reading bus ?
  - mattmcknight 4y ago
    But so many teachers have been miseducated and they try to leave it out. Wyse and Bradbury at UCL are pushing non-evidence based approaches on the false authority of Margaret Meek Spencer [1] by making up a strawman of teaching only phonics, as if people that advocate teaching phonics claimed that were the only step in learning to read. [1] https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10152356/1/Wyse_The%20passion%2C%20pedagogy%20and%20politics%20of%20reading_AOP.pdf https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10152356/1/Wyse_The%20...
  - michaelcampbell 4y ago
    I'm not sure why you think this is a one or the other solution.