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Ask HN: Why aren’t planes boarded back-to-front?
Every time I fly I see the same problem. Planes are boarded front-to-back. You always get a “traffic jam” of passengers stowing their gear and waiting for others to sit down and get out of the way.
If they boarded staring from the rear, this should be mitigated to a large extent.
This seems common sense. Why don’t they do it? There must be a reason.
They could board first and business class and then reverse board.
- iguana_lawyer 4y agoSo that the people who paid the most get fist dibs on the overhead bins.
- tough 4y agoThere's some planes where you can board at the same time from front or back. I think it's an issue of missing arms at the airport or doesn't add that much convenience but it's doable
- ghaff 4y agoI don't know any that are front and back these days--at least using jet bridges which is just about any major airport. But it's common on certain wide-bodies to have separate doors for First/Business and the various economy classes.
- galdauts 4y agoI was recently on a Norwegian.com flight and they boarded both in the front (using a jet bridge) and at the back (using stairs)
- ghaff 4y agoI haven't seen that in years. I think it was 727s used to do that pre-jet bridges. But I guess some models in some airports can still do that.
- victorbjorklund 4y agoRyanair and wizz air has had front and backboarding on like 90% of all my flights the last couple of years.
- kcplate 4y agoI’ve seen this more in Europe than US. In US it seems like only the larger planes doing intercontinental flights will sometimes have front and back boarding, but I attribute that just to the shear amount of people to load into the aircraft.
- ghaff 4y agoAs I said in another comment, it's not even front and back--it's business class and economy. (Both from the front.) I'm pretty sure I haven't seen back boarding in a US (or for that matter European or Asian) airport, given the airlines I generally fly, in probably decades.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y agoIt’s quite common in Europe, at least on budget airlines. EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair all do it. I’ve also had back boarding on domestic flights in India. I know in Europe it’s literally because the airports charge extra for using the jetway and the budget airlines, not wanting to pay that, have everyone on the tarmac anyway so why not just toss another stairway up and get people on faster. This is especially true when the weather is garbage and they don’t want some tweet from someone complaining about having to stand forever in the queue in the freezing rain to get on their plane when there’s a perfectly good back door sitting there. I’ve lived in the USA for most of my life and I don’t think I’ve ever done back boarding, and have perhaps deplaned from the back once. It’s very rare here. It’s quite crazy to me that people don’t do back boarding more often, but perhaps the YouTube comment on the CGPGrey video above was telling: a pilot said that boarding isn’t actually the bottleneck, it’s getting everyone’s checked baggage on board. So even after everyone is taking forever to board there’s still more to wait on, so why would airlines even bother to make it faster when it’s not the real bottleneck.
- foogazi 4y agoI’ve boarded flight that have both front or back boarding depending on seat aisle
- gardenhedge 4y agoI watched a YouTube video on this topic a long time ago. This isn't the exact video but similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMgarcFkXz4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMgarcFkXz4 (Vox) tldw: random boarding turns out to be the fastest
- bink 4y agoIt's a good explanation and pretty much what you'd think.. the best way is to minimize people bunching up anywhere. Though I will say I've flown on many of those airlines they list as using "back to front" and they definitely didn't use that method. Southwest being the fastest also makes sense, as people who can choose their own seats will gravitate to open areas rather than waiting for someone to stow their carry-on so they can sit next to them.
- ericalexander0 4y agoTaking a guess that it's a sales tactic. Everyone has to walk past first class, where they're already being served food and beverages in their luxury sized seats. Then past business class. Then to your peasant seat.
- Simulacra 4y agoThat's interesting because studies have shown that passengers that have to walk to first class are primed for air rage, and resentment. https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2016/05/11/resentment-of-first-class-passengers-can-be-a-cause-of-air-rage https://www.economist.com/gulliver/2016/05/11/resentment-of-... I remember boarding a Virgin flight in Australia in 2019 and they boarded from both ends of the plane. I thought that was the most efficient way.
- ghaff 4y agoMore to the point, the people paying more (or with status) want to get settled in first, get their carry-ons stowed while there's plenty of room, and not be standing around any longer than they have to. It's not just business vs. economy. On a lot of carriers, some economy gets boarded earlier, may have more leg room, and won't have trouble getting overhead bin space. (And they can deboard faster--and probably don't have checked luggage so they can get out of the airport faster.)
- bryananderson 4y agoI think this is right (people clearly desire early boarding), but I don’t personally understand it. Being crammed in an airplane isn’t the best—why do people want to do it for extra time (and while sitting on the ground, without the beautiful views from above)? Boarding last when you’re in the back is no fun because you’re squeezing past everyone who’s trying to get their carry-on situated, but boarding last in the front seems like a luxury. Overhead bin space does make sense for why people in economy want to board first. But first/business class typically have their own bins, so why do they want to board first?
- upon_drumhead 4y ago
- npace12 4y agoI always thought it was because the plane would tip if you put all that weight in the back
- 1attice 4y agoIt's literally because people who have paid for business class want to board first. Think it through. You've just been charged an extra $500 to sit in a chair for four hours, and you're waiting in line behind a mother with five screaming children? You've got very important business things to attend to! Or whatever! IDK if you ever watched _Veep_ but there's this marvellous episode where a megadonor is complaining that he didn't get more chicken than the $100-plate crowd at a fundraiser. He was literally counting (let's generously say) $5 chicken breasts. Never mind that he was a hominid of roughly the same proportion as everyone else in the room; did not metabolize food any faster or differently; and certainly couldn't care less about $5. So: like that, but for air travel.
- jghn 4y ago> to sit in a chair for four hours And this is why I usually wait towards the end of boarding to get on the plane no matter where I'm sitting.
- spapas82 4y agoActually at least for airplanes in Greece (and I'd presume the whole EU) families with small children have precedence over business class passengers.
- ghaff 4y agoUS as well.
- pubby 4y agoI've heard an excellent way to board is to have people walk as far into the plane as possible, then take a nearby seat when they can't walk further. This is like boarding back-to-front, but handles variance in luggage loading more efficiently.
- l1n 4y agoYou might like this CGP Grey video that explains it pretty well: The Better Boarding Method Airlines Won't Use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo
- ParetoOptimal 4y agoMythbusters also covered it some time ago.
- quaffapint 4y agoAssociated mythbusters video (clip, so leaves out some details)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss1S3-Kv6R8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss1S3-Kv6R8
- mindslight 4y agoI was disappointed that he held onto the assumption that everybody needs an assigned seat. Southwest has boarding groups, but not assigned seats. This feels vastly superior because once a person finds a seat they want to stay in it, as opposed to disrupting the incoming stream by trying to trade seats to be closer to traveling companions etc.
- akerl_ 4y agoI feel like you’re vastly overestimating the percentage of passengers who trade seats. Most airlines’ boarding strategies are terrible, but getting rid of assigned seats would objectively make my flight experience more chaotic.
- ghaff 4y agoAs a formerly very frequent traveler, not having an assigned seat sounds completely awful to me. Not that I've had much reason to use Southwest since I lived in the South, it's unlikely I would ever fly them barring unusual circumstances for that reason.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jldugger 4y agoCGP Grey covered this already years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAHbLRjF0vo. It doesn't work even optimally. But more importantly, boarding isn't the only action being taken. You can't take off without fuel and luggage, and even food factors into turnarounds.
- ufmace 4y agoI have a feeling that trying to get people organized enough for some sort of carefully optimized boarding program would take longer than the time it would actually save
- Brian_K_White 4y agoIllogical statement, given that we already have an order which is in fact adhered to. It's merely a seemingly backwards one.
- rco8786 4y agoSouthwest does it pretty well. Everyone has a number on their ticket and you form a line.
- hnburnsy 4y agoFunny story saw a passenger who had C-3 on his Southwest boarding pass, and thought that his assigned seat was in Row 3, Seat C.
- acwan93 4y agoUnited and Delta tried during the pandemic to improve social distancing [1] but switched back once travel came back, and I'm guessing this kind of boarding ended up being slower. It turns out the Southwest way (random boarding) was still the fastest. >Loading back to front just moves the line inside the plane, but is not significantly faster than loading from the front to the back.[2] [1]: https://thepointsguy.com/news/back-to-front-boarding-coronavirus/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/back-to-front-boarding-coronav... [2]: https://thepointsguy.com/2012/10/travel-science-improving-airplane-boarding-procedures/ https://thepointsguy.com/2012/10/travel-science-improving-ai...
- basch 4y agoTo avoid a line forming in the plane, they should board by column, even rows then odd rows. A Odd. E Even. B Odd. D Even. C. D Odd. B Even. E Odd. A Even. People and family together can board together, only if their towards the window counterpart has been called.
- hnburnsy 4y agoI find SWA the fastest boarding but after boarding is complete there is a 5-10 minute delay from the gate agents delivering documentation to the pilots, as opposed to airlines like Delta where boarding absolutely takes longer but once boarding is complete, the plane quickly leaves the gate. In the end it feels like they take the same amount of time.
- chrismcb 4y agoRandom is mostly the fastest. But I find think southwest is exactly random. As most people tend to sit in the first seats, so southwest turns into a front to back boarding. One thing nice about southwest is orderly lines.
- sammy2255 4y agoThey are
- freitzkriesler2 4y agoBecause God forbid first class people have to walk extra long! Here's an unethical life pro tip. When I fly for business, I intentionally wait until the final boarding call to get on. Why? Because then I would sit where ever I felt like on the plane! Extra leg room aisle rows? You betcha! Since I fly red eyes often, this would sometimes get me 3 seat rows to myself. One time I got extra bold and just sat in an open first class seat. Managed to go half way before the stewardess said I shouldn't be in first class. She didn't make me leave however and I wasn't drinking their booze.
- yodon 4y agoIf this question interests you, doing a search for "airline turn around time statistics" is likely to take you to lots of interesting discoveries. As is commonly the case when one looks at a giant industry and says "I could do this way better having thought about it for 30 seconds" this is a far more difficult problem to optimize than it appears on first glance.
- JALTU 4y agoHa ha ha, coincidentally I just explained this to my son on a recent trip. There are seven levels of boarding classes for Alaska Airlines. Seven. Seems simple if one cares to admit it: Status. No judgment here, even though we were in fact in the last category of seven. Not needing extra time for kids/elderly, not premier, not business, not military, not strata du jour...so yes, our category boarded from the back to front! Sort of... :-)
- ghayes 4y agoWhich is really a product of higher checked bag fees so now overhead is at a premium and often runs out, hence why getting on early is so important to people.
- readthenotes1 4y agoNot only the fees, but also the wait at baggage claim for a bag that never comes...
- 93po 4y agoEvery flight I've been on checks bags for free when space runs out, my issue is I deliberately never check bags because they lost my luggage once and I never want to repeat that again.
- croutonwagon 4y agoYou normally get one. But I have learned I keep 2-3days of clothes in a carry on because of lost luggage. I also now toss airtags in my luggage. Probably useless, not like the airline is gonna care. Generally though, I just hate flying and try to avoid it.
- 93po 4y agoThe annoying anecdote I've heard about airtags is that even if they lose your luggage and you go to them saying you can literally pinpoint exactly where it's at in the airport, they refuse to deviate from their existing broken system to retrieve it for you. And I believe some airlines have explicitly forbidden airtags in luggage, likely for the exact reason of it highlighting how stupid this process is.
- rs999gti 4y agoJust ban carry on luggage. Of course this won't happen because of all the business travellers. But I've noticed that lots of time is spent trying to stow carry ons and close overhead bins. Just ban carry ons and reserve the time for getting people into their seats.
- avalys 4y agoSo you want to ban carry-on luggage so you can get seated 10 minutes faster - guaranteeing that every traveler needs to spend another 10 minutes at their destination waiting for their checked bag to show up at the baggage claim. How does that make sense?
- readthenotes1 4y ago10?? In larger airports it can be much longer, assuming your bag even makes it. Disclosure: after my last misrouted bag, I have probably checked bags twice since 2011.
- rs999gti 4y agoThe time is not spent boarding the plane. It is spent waiting on bags in the terminal. Solve each problem independently and stop trying to mix them. Also, we don't have to ban carry ons, we can use Hacker News and Reddit's favorite blunt tool - taxes. Apply a large add on cost (taxes) for each carry on. The larger and heavier, the more add on paid. This would also offset the fuel costs of carry ons. Of course business users could just expense the carry on add on cost, which preserves carry ons for them
- avalys 4y agoWhy would you apply this weight-based tax to just the carry-on bags, and not checked luggage, or the passengers themselves?
- rs999gti 4y ago> and not checked luggage, or the passengers themselves? Checked luggage are weighed and accounted for at check in. For passengers - just assume 136 KG (which is really generous) times (the number of seats plus total crew)
- grrdotcloud 4y agoI prefer to think that the most attractive people are those who are most relaxed.
- chinaman425 4y ago[dead]
- rsynnott 4y agoRyanair boards from both directions (except in airports which require the use of jet bridges); your ticket tells you which door to go to. Of course, some fraction of passengers always ignore this, leading to a certain amount of chaos.
- tomcam 4y ago“Ryanair” means “chaos” in the original Anglo-Saxon ;)
- blakesterz 4y agoLast week I boarded an Air Canada 787 out of Hawaii, and it kinda-sorta did that, and not only that, window seats first. I think there was like 7 or 8 groups. The first few was the usual 1st Class and people that paid extra, but then the final bunch were all back to front AND outside to inside. That didn't seem to be the case for the same flight from Toronto, same plane too.
- hnburnsy 4y agoWilMA - Window, Middle, Aisle
- version_five 4y agoAirlines started charging for checked bags so everyone started bringing massive carry-on bags. If you board last, there is no room for your bag. So it's a "perk" to get on first as an economy passenger. Boarding order for economy is usually 1. Frequent fliers with status giving them priority boarding, who also get to choose their seat and pick as close to the front as they can, 2. Back to front in "zones". I'd also add, I've seen some more sophisticated theoretical boarding strategies, but passengers have trouble even understanding zones, there's no chance of boarding alternate rows or whatever working in practice.
- bb88 4y agoBecause First Class flyers need to be served their alcohol and pre-flight snacks.
- euroderf 4y agoEvery person stuffing a bag into a bin says "this will only take a second" but all these bag stuffings add up. Ask such people to step out of the aisle for a moment to let others pass, or if that fails, just run'em down.
- foogazi 4y agoClass and carry-on space?
- chrismcb 4y agoBack to front is better but not there l that much more efficient. You really want to board outside in. Window seats then middle seats then aisle. I think there was a study down that showed random boarding was best
- dizhn 4y agoMethod one if you have access to both doors of the plane. They tell you which entrance to use based on your row number. (First half uses the first entrance, second uses the rear) Method two: You start boarding based on your zone number. The people seated in the rear go first. It sounds like a combination of the two would be even better but it would be hard to manage. Isn't this how it's done around the world? (Last piece of the puzzle to solve the biggest issue with boarding, you need dedicated flight attendends who will find a place for your carry on. They sometimes even ask some people to take their smaller items from out of the bin and put them under the seat)
- ruh-roh 4y agoI used to travel ...a lot... Minimum twice a week, usually 4+. As an engineer (and process consultant), I spent countless hours sitting at airport gates looking for any optimization I could find, mostly focusing on wasteful and (seemingly expensive) boarding processes. My favorite half-baked + stupid + fun one: Install the plane seating area at the gate itself, as a separate detached entity on a conveyor belt. Passengers can take their time, it's open, there aren't walls. You can just walk right into Row 20, seat A. No squeezing down aisles. Once everyone arrives and takes their seat, the belt moves and shuttles the seats+passengers into the fuselage. Kinda like a mini-roller coaster. Shut doors. Take off. Repeat in reverse after landing. (There are obviously serious problems with this. You'd have to redesign planes and gates, at a minimum.)