3 ms·

From what I've heard about a lot of global freight contracting, it seems like there's a lot of favoritism - with ocean freight, for example, when ships are pack

From what I've heard about a lot of global freight contracting, it seems like there's a lot of favoritism - with ocean freight, for example, when ships are packed, you're not getting your shipments onto them unless you have good relationships with the carriers/brokers/other folks in the chain who can make it happen for you. I suppose blatantly taking kickbacks crosses the line, but it definitely seems like an industry where you'd expect to find this kind of thing.

vkou 4y ago
It's like that in local shipping, too. Customers need shit shipped, and they need it NOW, and big rainmaker accounts will absolutely get the red carpet treatment. Shipping firm account reps are middlemen in this arrangement, and work on commission, so are strongly incentivized to do whatever it takes to make their big customers happy. If your customer who is responsible for $200,000/year of your take-home commission is screaming at you, and you could get them what they want with a bribe to the trucking company's rep, you have a pretty strong incentive to pay it. Which is why prosecuting people for corruption is important. Everyone would be doing it, otherwise.
datadeft 4y ago
I would be surprised if there was an "industry" without kickbacks.
- doryWalnut 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - metadat 4y ago
    Holy unethical kickback batman. This appears to be true, unveiled only yesterday: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/harlan-crow-bought-clarence-thomass-mothers-house.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/harlan-crow-bought-c... https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-cr... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-mom-billionaire-house.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-... Discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35581266 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35581266 And flagged after 80 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35467948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35467948
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
    It should be noted that this isn't normal! He may get away with it because he's a supreme court justice, our supreme court sucks right now, and our constitution provides insufficient checks on the supreme court's power. But there's a reason Pro Publica did an exposé.
    - thatguy0900 4y ago
      We just found out about this recently. How do we know it's not normal? This wasn't even the only thing, he also received multiple all expense paid luxery vacations from rich people. Surely his fellow justices have questions about his exotic all expense paid trips. If anything I would assume they are doing similar things until proven otherwise.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      > He may get away with it because he's a supreme court justice That would be a massive blow against the system.
      - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        I agree!
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Impeachment by the house and conviction in the senate afterwards have high bars. Impeachment doesn’t happen very often, only once for a Supreme Court justice (and the senate didn’t convict).
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      > It should be noted that this isn't normal! You don't know that. This whole expose is about the weakness of the disclosure rules levied on Supreme Court justices, the gaps, the amount open to interpretation. The only assurance you have is that some level of compliance is normal because a disclosure happened before. "hey look, they actually disclosed something! good thing I don't live in this *other* corrupt country in the world where you would be disappeared for saying this! American exceptionalism!"
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  You can find kickbacks everywhere, but in some industries it's so deeply embedded in the culture that it's nearly impossible to find any alternatives. The common theme is that there is usually a bottleneck, monopoly, gatekeeper, or government-mandated middleman. This is what enables the kickback scheme to work without the threat of clean alternatives competing with it. Ports are ripe for corruption and kickbacks because there aren't many of them. If you want to get your cargo in or out, you have to go through a nearby port. Trucking the freight to a different port is more expensive than any bribes/kickbacks/corruption (by design) so people just settle and pay it.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    And of course the government embraces kickbacks and "political horse trading" when it benefits them, just like the recent Apple tax thing.
giantg2 4y ago
Kickbacks, gifts, favors, or other customary considerations is basically how it works in many parts of the world. Just like a dowery or haggling is customary in some areas.
skybrian 4y ago
Customers want to pay more for better service. Seems like this will eventually be rationalized and done officially and impersonally, like paying more for overnight package delivery?

vkou 4y ago

It's like that in local shipping, too. Customers need shit shipped, and they need it NOW, and big rainmaker accounts will absolutely get the red carpet treatment. Shipping firm account reps are middlemen in this arrangement, and work on commission, so are strongly incentivized to do whatever it takes to make their big customers happy. If your customer who is responsible for $200,000/year of your take-home commission is screaming at you, and you could get them what they want with a bribe to the trucking company's rep, you have a pretty strong incentive to pay it. Which is why prosecuting people for corruption is important. Everyone would be doing it, otherwise.

datadeft 4y ago

I would be surprised if there was an "industry" without kickbacks.

doryWalnut 4y ago
[flagged]
- metadat 4y ago
  Holy unethical kickback batman. This appears to be true, unveiled only yesterday: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/harlan-crow-bought-clarence-thomass-mothers-house.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/04/harlan-crow-bought-c... https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-cr... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-mom-billionaire-house.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/clarence-thomas-... Discussed yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35581266 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35581266 And flagged after 80 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35467948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35467948
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  It should be noted that this isn't normal! He may get away with it because he's a supreme court justice, our supreme court sucks right now, and our constitution provides insufficient checks on the supreme court's power. But there's a reason Pro Publica did an exposé.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    We just found out about this recently. How do we know it's not normal? This wasn't even the only thing, he also received multiple all expense paid luxery vacations from rich people. Surely his fellow justices have questions about his exotic all expense paid trips. If anything I would assume they are doing similar things until proven otherwise.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > He may get away with it because he's a supreme court justice That would be a massive blow against the system.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      I agree!
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Impeachment by the house and conviction in the senate afterwards have high bars. Impeachment doesn’t happen very often, only once for a Supreme Court justice (and the senate didn’t convict).
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    > It should be noted that this isn't normal! You don't know that. This whole expose is about the weakness of the disclosure rules levied on Supreme Court justices, the gaps, the amount open to interpretation. The only assurance you have is that some level of compliance is normal because a disclosure happened before. "hey look, they actually disclosed something! good thing I don't live in this *other* corrupt country in the world where you would be disappeared for saying this! American exceptionalism!"
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
You can find kickbacks everywhere, but in some industries it's so deeply embedded in the culture that it's nearly impossible to find any alternatives. The common theme is that there is usually a bottleneck, monopoly, gatekeeper, or government-mandated middleman. This is what enables the kickback scheme to work without the threat of clean alternatives competing with it. Ports are ripe for corruption and kickbacks because there aren't many of them. If you want to get your cargo in or out, you have to go through a nearby port. Trucking the freight to a different port is more expensive than any bribes/kickbacks/corruption (by design) so people just settle and pay it.
- giantg2 4y ago
  And of course the government embraces kickbacks and "political horse trading" when it benefits them, just like the recent Apple tax thing.

giantg2 4y ago

Kickbacks, gifts, favors, or other customary considerations is basically how it works in many parts of the world. Just like a dowery or haggling is customary in some areas.

skybrian 4y ago

Customers want to pay more for better service. Seems like this will eventually be rationalized and done officially and impersonally, like paying more for overnight package delivery?