5 ms·

What is the Steam client doing that makes it a problem?

SXX 4y ago
Like making me login again into Steam at random for whatever reason Valve come up with? I guess there was bug on older macOS where it asked me for password every single time I restarted Steam. Now this is fixed though. There is offline mode, but it's unreliable. I know that some games might run without Steam, but it's not comfortable at all. And yeah It's not a problem. It's just a difference between Steam and DRM-free platforms like GOG.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > There is offline mode, but it's unreliable. Even when it's working, eventually it stops working and you'll be forced to connect to the internet. I learned this the hard way once. When you're already dealing with the fact that you don't have internet access, having your access to your single player offline games taken from you is just cruel!
t0bia_s 4y ago
It's like man in middle that doesn't have to be there. I'm buying games exclusively on GoG because DRM free policy.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  GoG doesn't have a DRM-free policy. DRM is allowed. Has been for quite a while.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    GoG galaxy is not must like Steam.
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      That depends what you're trying to do.
    - debugnik 4y ago
      Galaxy also has an SDK that devs can choose to require for their game; if they don't it's for lack of adoption. Their docs do admittedly ask devs to make integration optional for the user, but their definition of optional includes "no multiplayer" as well.
      - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        > but their definition of optional includes "no multiplayer" as well. I don't think this is ideal by any means, but I do think it's a reasonable compromise. For better or worse, many/most modern multiplayer games are architected to use a centralized, company-run software. The server software is not built to be deployed by end-users, and getting it to that state would involve very significant engineering effort. It's just not a reasonable ask.
    - flohofwoe 4y ago
      Steam also allows DRM free games, it's probably just not very popular with game developers. One advantage of GoG is that they seem to actually care that old games on their store are actually working on new Windows versions, while on Steam it's more or less a gamble (at least you can return broken games though).
      - depressedpanda 4y ago
        In some ways I think we've reached a point where it's easier to run old Windows games on Linux via Wine/Proton, than on the latest version of Windows.
  - bentley 4y ago
    When I hear this complaint it usually refers to games that provide certain features, multiplayer, rewards like skins, etc., only through the use of an online account. I’m not saying those things aren’t worth complaining about, but frankly, they aren’t what come to mind when I think of problematic DRM in video games. What comes to mind is the inability to install and play a game without an internet connection. GOG still provides real installers, and remains the most prominent platform committed to it. To get a sense of what people are referring to as DRM on GOG, I reference this thread: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/post1 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singlep...
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      You don't think multiplayer counts as playing the game?
      - bentley 4y ago
        I think having an online account for multiplayer is a categorically different kind of requirement than having an online account for single player. Until there’s a storefront that only sells games that include multiplayer servers that can be self‐hosted on your LAN, I think GOG’s explicit policy of no‐DRM installers is worth praising.
        thaumasiotes 4y ago
        They didn't have a problem releasing Northgard without the ability to play single-player offline. There was enough complaining about that that it got fixed, I believe, but that's how they released it.
        bentley 4y ago
        Yes, that was mentioned in the thread I linked. According to the thread, both GOG and the game developer claimed it was a bug, and fixed it. This does not convince me of your statement that GOG has de facto eliminated its no‐DRM policy. A more plausible explanation is that GOG, not rolling in money like Steam, is subject to a certain amount of jank including high‐impact bugs that take longer than they should to get fixed. And GOG’s jankiness is a common complaint throughout these HN comments. I don’t think anyone contests that Valve provides a generally slick experience in comparison to its competitors.
- maccard 4y ago
  It provides a storefront, authentication, distribution and an updater, at least. That is valuable to a lot of games.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    That is service. Not DRM.
IIsi50MHz 4y ago
I think Steam requires that the Steam client connect to Steamservers at least once every two weeks, to validate your licenses.

SXX 4y ago

Like making me login again into Steam at random for whatever reason Valve come up with? I guess there was bug on older macOS where it asked me for password every single time I restarted Steam. Now this is fixed though. There is offline mode, but it's unreliable. I know that some games might run without Steam, but it's not comfortable at all. And yeah It's not a problem. It's just a difference between Steam and DRM-free platforms like GOG.

autoexec 4y ago
> There is offline mode, but it's unreliable. Even when it's working, eventually it stops working and you'll be forced to connect to the internet. I learned this the hard way once. When you're already dealing with the fact that you don't have internet access, having your access to your single player offline games taken from you is just cruel!

t0bia_s 4y ago

It's like man in middle that doesn't have to be there. I'm buying games exclusively on GoG because DRM free policy.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
GoG doesn't have a DRM-free policy. DRM is allowed. Has been for quite a while.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  GoG galaxy is not must like Steam.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    That depends what you're trying to do.
  - debugnik 4y ago
    Galaxy also has an SDK that devs can choose to require for their game; if they don't it's for lack of adoption. Their docs do admittedly ask devs to make integration optional for the user, but their definition of optional includes "no multiplayer" as well.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      > but their definition of optional includes "no multiplayer" as well. I don't think this is ideal by any means, but I do think it's a reasonable compromise. For better or worse, many/most modern multiplayer games are architected to use a centralized, company-run software. The server software is not built to be deployed by end-users, and getting it to that state would involve very significant engineering effort. It's just not a reasonable ask.
  - flohofwoe 4y ago
    Steam also allows DRM free games, it's probably just not very popular with game developers. One advantage of GoG is that they seem to actually care that old games on their store are actually working on new Windows versions, while on Steam it's more or less a gamble (at least you can return broken games though).
    - depressedpanda 4y ago
      In some ways I think we've reached a point where it's easier to run old Windows games on Linux via Wine/Proton, than on the latest version of Windows.
- bentley 4y ago
  When I hear this complaint it usually refers to games that provide certain features, multiplayer, rewards like skins, etc., only through the use of an online account. I’m not saying those things aren’t worth complaining about, but frankly, they aren’t what come to mind when I think of problematic DRM in video games. What comes to mind is the inability to install and play a game without an internet connection. GOG still provides real installers, and remains the most prominent platform committed to it. To get a sense of what people are referring to as DRM on GOG, I reference this thread: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/post1 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singlep...
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    You don't think multiplayer counts as playing the game?
    - bentley 4y ago
      I think having an online account for multiplayer is a categorically different kind of requirement than having an online account for single player. Until there’s a storefront that only sells games that include multiplayer servers that can be self‐hosted on your LAN, I think GOG’s explicit policy of no‐DRM installers is worth praising.
      - thaumasiotes 4y ago
        They didn't have a problem releasing Northgard without the ability to play single-player offline. There was enough complaining about that that it got fixed, I believe, but that's how they released it.
        bentley 4y ago
        Yes, that was mentioned in the thread I linked. According to the thread, both GOG and the game developer claimed it was a bug, and fixed it. This does not convince me of your statement that GOG has de facto eliminated its no‐DRM policy. A more plausible explanation is that GOG, not rolling in money like Steam, is subject to a certain amount of jank including high‐impact bugs that take longer than they should to get fixed. And GOG’s jankiness is a common complaint throughout these HN comments. I don’t think anyone contests that Valve provides a generally slick experience in comparison to its competitors.
maccard 4y ago
It provides a storefront, authentication, distribution and an updater, at least. That is valuable to a lot of games.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  That is service. Not DRM.

IIsi50MHz 4y ago

I think Steam requires that the Steam client connect to Steamservers at least once every two weeks, to validate your licenses.