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Personally, I wont ever connect my phone to my car at all (if my next car doesn't have an aux port I'll install one myself), but I have to assume that GM is doi

Personally, I wont ever connect my phone to my car at all (if my next car doesn't have an aux port I'll install one myself), but I have to assume that GM is doing this because their own software siphons more data off of our devices than even carplay or andriod auto does. > "GM is looking to monetize more software and services within its vehicles and is taking a page out of Tesla’s playbook," Since they're only doing this because they want to take even more of your money after you've already spent a small fortune buying their vehicle, consumers pushing back against this is a good idea even if you don't have strong feelings about what software your car uses.

mritun 4y ago
CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data and that’s the “problem” GM seems trying to “fix”. CarPlay and AndroidAuto protocols basically treat car’s display as a remote framebuffer.
- majormajor 4y ago
  There's been some controversy about data collection going the other way the Android side. https://www.motortrend.com/features/13-cool-facts-about-the-2017-porsche-911/ https://www.motortrend.com/features/13-cool-facts-about-the-... > As part of the agreement an automaker would have to enter with Google, Porsche said certain pieces of data must be collected and transmitted back to Mountain View, California. Stuff like vehicle speed, throttle position, coolant and oil temp, engine revs—basically Google wants a complete OBD2 dump whenever someone activates Android Auto. > Google, for its part, disputes some of our source's assertions. Liz Markman, a Google spokesperson for Android Auto, said in a statement that Google does not collect some of the data listed by Porsche, such as throttle position and coolant temp. She declined to provide a full list of what data is collected, but emphasized that Android Auto users must opt in to share any information upon their first connection of their phone to a car. She said some of that data is used for safety (restricting typing and allowing only voice input when the car is not in "park," for example) and some is to used to optimize the app's user experience. So seems like Android Auto requires at least some data from the car, as of 2015. Porsche ended up adding it in 2022, though, so maybe they stopped fighting that battle. I'm not sure which I want less - the phone company getting data from my car, or the car company getting data from the phone.
  - FractalParadigm 4y ago
    If that's the case, how are 3rd-party head units allowed to use AA? I know for an absolute fact that mine recieves exactly zero data from the car outside a simple +12v signal that tells the radio to turn on/off. Do aftermarket radios exist that require a CAN connection? If so, how could they even be certain the radio even 'understands' the flavour of CAN being used by the car? How about more modern cars that have their CAN systems near-completely locked down?
    - majormajor 4y ago
      I would imagine that Google's negotiations with, say, Pioneer are different than theirs with GM. If Google (or Apple) thinks that having it onboard is gonna be worth some data sharing, or whatever else they want, to the manufacturer they're gonna push for that even if they have different terms for aftermarket equipment. "Just buy an aftermarket radio" isn't really a good marketing campaign for an auto manufacturer to make up for a lack of the integration, after all.
      - tadfisher 4y ago
        Well, that and the fact that no manufacturer ships a double-DIN hole in the dash any more, so it's pretty much impossible to get an aftermarket head unit. That said, there was one Chinese Android-based unit that was made for the 3rd-gen Mazda 3, replacement screen on the dash and everything.
        iainmerrick 4y ago
        Not to disagree, but as I recall it, the big problem with modular head units was that people would just break into cars and steal them. Having your car radio stolen was fairly common when I was a kid.
        davemp 4y ago
        I’m sure that could be addressed with some sort of crypto signing strategy.
- rektide 4y ago
  Wouldn't it be great if cars would just send the car data out to phones? People already have a very well configured device hooked up to all kind of extras with them in their pocket. I don't really known what Android Auto or CarPlay offer but my weak understanding is it's mostly a dumb screen & display... Maybe a microphone? If hvac & lighting & other auxiliary systems were also controllable some really pleasant well integrated experiences could be made. And also the people riding in the back would have a much easier time being able to DJ. Alas any and all data integrations imply they will almost immediately be used for a the worst ends. The old EU funded Webinos IoT system had a really neat pro-user model, and they had some OK car based demoes too before they closed up. There's just so little places where trust can even start today, & comparatively webinos was such a solid trustful/trustable go.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    There's no real standard, though with more cars adopting Android Automotive (not the same as Android Auto), perhaps that will change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive
    - rblatz 4y ago
      So far my experience with Android Automotive has been a deal breaker. I rented a Polestar for a week and it felt like I was driving an android phone. Absolutely not interested.
    - rektide 4y ago
      100%. Android Automotive sounds it is it's own infotainment. I guess I'm more interested in getting the data out to users, to consume & use in different creative ways. I thought webinos was so cool because it was a really interesting platform for exposing capabilites to users, who could then give different apps & services access. It was both a competent IoT platform, & one that effectively through encryption basically sent all data over VPN to the user, who then figured out what to do with it.
  - philsnow 4y ago
    Car manufacturers don't want to get muscled out of "their" own market. It's like ISPs not being willing to be a dumb pipe and instead trying to upsell a dozen other services (bundled TV/phone subscriptions, ad blocking, etc). They don't have to stop the crappy behavior because where are you going to go? Most addresses in the US have no more than one reasonable ISP available (some have zero). I'm just hoping that all the other car manufacturers don't rally around GM and announce they're all doing the same thing to try to capture/generate subscription revenue from their low-margin products.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data Perhaps that's changed. There have been warnings about using AndroidAuto and CarPlay with rental cars for years. Now that cars are increasingly collecting data and sending it home themselves, any info your personal car has collected from your phone or usage can be sent back too. https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-your-car-could-put-your-personal-information-at-risk/30755633 https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-yo... https://www.creativetechs.com/2022/06/24/how-to-safely-use-carplay-in-rental-cars/ https://www.creativetechs.com/2022/06/24/how-to-safely-use-c... https://old.reddit.com/r/AndroidAuto/comments/v1z1ru/is_it_good_idea_to_use_android_auto_in_rental_car/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AndroidAuto/comments/v1z1ru/is_it_g... For some details see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9571200/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9571200/ > In addition, the forensic artifacts acquired in each analysis area show that the forensic artifacts obtainable in IVI systems using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are not limited to the internal storage in a mobile device. As such, a digital forensic examination of various elements constituting the IVI system is a useful addition to vehicle forensics. An increasing number of people are using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, and more vehicles and manufacturers are sup-porting these systems. The proposed forensic methodology and the acquired artifacts can be applied as an important basis for future vehicle crime investigations.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    I’m not sure CarPlay gives anything. But every car I’ve hooked CarPlay up to wants to register it with Bluetooth at the same time so it can access my contacts. And that is a risk.
  - kalleboo 4y ago
    Your second link says > There’s no worry about CarPlay revealing any of your information to later car renters And the NIH study just says there has not been any research done on the issue yet. The issue isn't with Android Auto/CarPlay, but the legacy Bluetooth features that give the car access to your phonebook and SMS logs. You need to make sure to decline those when connecting your phone.
- amluto 4y ago
  A remote framebuffer that can, essentially by definition, see the contents of the display. That data is surely valuable to someone.
Gigachad 4y ago
My assumption is they are doing this because they don’t want to hand over control over the final experience to tech companies who will build a moat and lock them out.
- kube-system 4y ago
  And so they’ll hand it over to Google who will let GM have as much control over the user experience as they want as long as the pipeline of user data keeps flowing.

mritun 4y ago

CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data and that’s the “problem” GM seems trying to “fix”. CarPlay and AndroidAuto protocols basically treat car’s display as a remote framebuffer.

majormajor 4y ago
There's been some controversy about data collection going the other way the Android side. https://www.motortrend.com/features/13-cool-facts-about-the-2017-porsche-911/ https://www.motortrend.com/features/13-cool-facts-about-the-... > As part of the agreement an automaker would have to enter with Google, Porsche said certain pieces of data must be collected and transmitted back to Mountain View, California. Stuff like vehicle speed, throttle position, coolant and oil temp, engine revs—basically Google wants a complete OBD2 dump whenever someone activates Android Auto. > Google, for its part, disputes some of our source's assertions. Liz Markman, a Google spokesperson for Android Auto, said in a statement that Google does not collect some of the data listed by Porsche, such as throttle position and coolant temp. She declined to provide a full list of what data is collected, but emphasized that Android Auto users must opt in to share any information upon their first connection of their phone to a car. She said some of that data is used for safety (restricting typing and allowing only voice input when the car is not in "park," for example) and some is to used to optimize the app's user experience. So seems like Android Auto requires at least some data from the car, as of 2015. Porsche ended up adding it in 2022, though, so maybe they stopped fighting that battle. I'm not sure which I want less - the phone company getting data from my car, or the car company getting data from the phone.
- FractalParadigm 4y ago
  If that's the case, how are 3rd-party head units allowed to use AA? I know for an absolute fact that mine recieves exactly zero data from the car outside a simple +12v signal that tells the radio to turn on/off. Do aftermarket radios exist that require a CAN connection? If so, how could they even be certain the radio even 'understands' the flavour of CAN being used by the car? How about more modern cars that have their CAN systems near-completely locked down?
  - majormajor 4y ago
    I would imagine that Google's negotiations with, say, Pioneer are different than theirs with GM. If Google (or Apple) thinks that having it onboard is gonna be worth some data sharing, or whatever else they want, to the manufacturer they're gonna push for that even if they have different terms for aftermarket equipment. "Just buy an aftermarket radio" isn't really a good marketing campaign for an auto manufacturer to make up for a lack of the integration, after all.
    - tadfisher 4y ago
      Well, that and the fact that no manufacturer ships a double-DIN hole in the dash any more, so it's pretty much impossible to get an aftermarket head unit. That said, there was one Chinese Android-based unit that was made for the 3rd-gen Mazda 3, replacement screen on the dash and everything.
      - iainmerrick 4y ago
        Not to disagree, but as I recall it, the big problem with modular head units was that people would just break into cars and steal them. Having your car radio stolen was fairly common when I was a kid.
        davemp 4y ago
        I’m sure that could be addressed with some sort of crypto signing strategy.
rektide 4y ago
Wouldn't it be great if cars would just send the car data out to phones? People already have a very well configured device hooked up to all kind of extras with them in their pocket. I don't really known what Android Auto or CarPlay offer but my weak understanding is it's mostly a dumb screen & display... Maybe a microphone? If hvac & lighting & other auxiliary systems were also controllable some really pleasant well integrated experiences could be made. And also the people riding in the back would have a much easier time being able to DJ. Alas any and all data integrations imply they will almost immediately be used for a the worst ends. The old EU funded Webinos IoT system had a really neat pro-user model, and they had some OK car based demoes too before they closed up. There's just so little places where trust can even start today, & comparatively webinos was such a solid trustful/trustable go.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  There's no real standard, though with more cars adopting Android Automotive (not the same as Android Auto), perhaps that will change. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Automotive
  - rblatz 4y ago
    So far my experience with Android Automotive has been a deal breaker. I rented a Polestar for a week and it felt like I was driving an android phone. Absolutely not interested.
  - rektide 4y ago
    100%. Android Automotive sounds it is it's own infotainment. I guess I'm more interested in getting the data out to users, to consume & use in different creative ways. I thought webinos was so cool because it was a really interesting platform for exposing capabilites to users, who could then give different apps & services access. It was both a competent IoT platform, & one that effectively through encryption basically sent all data over VPN to the user, who then figured out what to do with it.
- philsnow 4y ago
  Car manufacturers don't want to get muscled out of "their" own market. It's like ISPs not being willing to be a dumb pipe and instead trying to upsell a dozen other services (bundled TV/phone subscriptions, ad blocking, etc). They don't have to stop the crappy behavior because where are you going to go? Most addresses in the US have no more than one reasonable ISP available (some have zero). I'm just hoping that all the other car manufacturers don't rally around GM and announce they're all doing the same thing to try to capture/generate subscription revenue from their low-margin products.
autoexec 4y ago
> CarPlay and AndroidAuto don’t give the car any access to the phone data Perhaps that's changed. There have been warnings about using AndroidAuto and CarPlay with rental cars for years. Now that cars are increasingly collecting data and sending it home themselves, any info your personal car has collected from your phone or usage can be sent back too. https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-your-car-could-put-your-personal-information-at-risk/30755633 https://www.wgal.com/article/connecting-your-cellphone-to-yo... https://www.creativetechs.com/2022/06/24/how-to-safely-use-carplay-in-rental-cars/ https://www.creativetechs.com/2022/06/24/how-to-safely-use-c... https://old.reddit.com/r/AndroidAuto/comments/v1z1ru/is_it_good_idea_to_use_android_auto_in_rental_car/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AndroidAuto/comments/v1z1ru/is_it_g... For some details see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9571200/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9571200/ > In addition, the forensic artifacts acquired in each analysis area show that the forensic artifacts obtainable in IVI systems using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are not limited to the internal storage in a mobile device. As such, a digital forensic examination of various elements constituting the IVI system is a useful addition to vehicle forensics. An increasing number of people are using Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, and more vehicles and manufacturers are sup-porting these systems. The proposed forensic methodology and the acquired artifacts can be applied as an important basis for future vehicle crime investigations.
- MBCook 4y ago
  I’m not sure CarPlay gives anything. But every car I’ve hooked CarPlay up to wants to register it with Bluetooth at the same time so it can access my contacts. And that is a risk.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  Your second link says > There’s no worry about CarPlay revealing any of your information to later car renters And the NIH study just says there has not been any research done on the issue yet. The issue isn't with Android Auto/CarPlay, but the legacy Bluetooth features that give the car access to your phonebook and SMS logs. You need to make sure to decline those when connecting your phone.
amluto 4y ago
A remote framebuffer that can, essentially by definition, see the contents of the display. That data is surely valuable to someone.

Gigachad 4y ago

My assumption is they are doing this because they don’t want to hand over control over the final experience to tech companies who will build a moat and lock them out.

kube-system 4y ago
And so they’ll hand it over to Google who will let GM have as much control over the user experience as they want as long as the pipeline of user data keeps flowing.