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goes to show some people are complete nut jobs. Best to go slow with most people until they have proven themselves to be non-deranged. And if they are crazy,

goes to show some people are complete nut jobs. Best to go slow with most people until they have proven themselves to be non-deranged. And if they are crazy, then just avoid. I wonder if Bob could have just avoided this guy.

the_mar 3y ago
It’s not like he invited him over to his house. How much slower can you go than talking on a sidewalk?
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  The linked article says that according to camera footage, Bob Lee (apparently willingly?) got into a car with Momeni. Later that night, a surveillance camera recorded Lee and Momeni getting into Momeni's white BMW outside his sister's apartment. Additional footage obtained by police shows the BMW heading to a "dark and secluded area" near downtown San Francisco. The two men are later seen standing together on a sidewalk for a few minutes before Momeni apparently stabs Lee. Momeni then tossed the knife, got back in his car and sped away.
  - the_mar 3y ago
    Yeah I know, but it’s not like he drove him to the woods, they drove like a mile down the street. Is it too far fetched to say he would have stabbed him on that other sidewalk if he didn’t get into his car?
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      I mean, we can't really do more than wildly speculate. Momeni's actions don't really seem coherent or logical. Additional footage obtained by police shows the BMW heading to a "dark and secluded area" near downtown San Francisco. It certainly seems premeditated. So maybe he would have just stabbed him in front of the apartment building no matter what. On the other hand, if he was going to kill Lee regardless, then why take the extra step of going to a second location? It seems like he truly hoped to avoid detection. So maybe he wouldn't have stabbed him in front of the apartment building, where there were plenty of cameras. On the other other hand, that also doesn't make a lot of sense. Even though he didn't kill Lee in front of the apartment building, he.... left an absolutely damning trail of video evidence there, and then wound up being caught on video anyway at the secondary location. And then left the murder weapon at the scene, presumably with his prints on it. In the end, Momeni's actions make just about zero rational sense so... how much useful speculation can we really do here? Zero IMO.
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        > Momeni's actions make just about zero rational sense Combined with the stabbing being with a kitchen knife, I’m inclined to say he probably wasn’t entirely rational at the time, and more of a spur of the moment thing.
        JohnBooty 3y ago
        In common usage, yeah. He was clearly incensed by what had recently transpired and was incredibly sloppy. In legal terms, this might well meet the definition of premeditation, as the article said. Grabbing a murder weapon, carrying it with you to meet your victim, and driving them to another location to carry out the murder probably more than meets the definition. He was clearly sloppy, and it certainly seems possible that he was wishy-washy to an extent (possibly hoping to talk things out with Lee somehow) but I don't think those things matter too much legally. I'm sure this is clear and does not need to be said, but: I'm not a lawyer.
        the_mar 3y ago
        Stabbing someone is never really a rational thing, unless it's a self-defense or something.
        JohnBooty 3y ago
        This is where things always get extra confusing when discussing crime. A killing is never really "rational" from an ethical or moral standpoint, except for extraordinary situations like self-defense. But premeditated murders are rational in another, more purely functional sense of the word: the killer was not untethered from reality, they understood the consequences of their actions, and took a series of concrete steps toward achieving the murder.
BeetleB 3y ago
> goes to show some people are complete nut jobs. Best to go slow with most people until they have proven themselves to be non-deranged. For a moment I thought you were referring to all the commenters who thought this was a "SF going lawless" story.
- kelp 3y ago
  Just because this story isn't evidence of SF being lawless doesn't mean SF isn't lawless. Yes, many many people jumped to some terrible conclusions about SF because of this story. And by American standards SF isn't bad with violent crime. But also the streetscape and property crime in SF are terrible. Both can be true.
grupthink 3y ago
All these people are playing with fire. Nima was jailed twice: 1) DUI 2) illegally selling switch blades. Nima's sister (married) had an affair with Bob Lee (also married).
- almost_usual 3y ago
  Bob was divorced.
  - grupthink 3y ago
    My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

the_mar 3y ago

It’s not like he invited him over to his house. How much slower can you go than talking on a sidewalk?

JohnBooty 3y ago
The linked article says that according to camera footage, Bob Lee (apparently willingly?) got into a car with Momeni. Later that night, a surveillance camera recorded Lee and Momeni getting into Momeni's white BMW outside his sister's apartment. Additional footage obtained by police shows the BMW heading to a "dark and secluded area" near downtown San Francisco. The two men are later seen standing together on a sidewalk for a few minutes before Momeni apparently stabs Lee. Momeni then tossed the knife, got back in his car and sped away.
- the_mar 3y ago
  Yeah I know, but it’s not like he drove him to the woods, they drove like a mile down the street. Is it too far fetched to say he would have stabbed him on that other sidewalk if he didn’t get into his car?
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    I mean, we can't really do more than wildly speculate. Momeni's actions don't really seem coherent or logical. Additional footage obtained by police shows the BMW heading to a "dark and secluded area" near downtown San Francisco. It certainly seems premeditated. So maybe he would have just stabbed him in front of the apartment building no matter what. On the other hand, if he was going to kill Lee regardless, then why take the extra step of going to a second location? It seems like he truly hoped to avoid detection. So maybe he wouldn't have stabbed him in front of the apartment building, where there were plenty of cameras. On the other other hand, that also doesn't make a lot of sense. Even though he didn't kill Lee in front of the apartment building, he.... left an absolutely damning trail of video evidence there, and then wound up being caught on video anyway at the secondary location. And then left the murder weapon at the scene, presumably with his prints on it. In the end, Momeni's actions make just about zero rational sense so... how much useful speculation can we really do here? Zero IMO.
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      > Momeni's actions make just about zero rational sense Combined with the stabbing being with a kitchen knife, I’m inclined to say he probably wasn’t entirely rational at the time, and more of a spur of the moment thing.
      - JohnBooty 3y ago
        In common usage, yeah. He was clearly incensed by what had recently transpired and was incredibly sloppy. In legal terms, this might well meet the definition of premeditation, as the article said. Grabbing a murder weapon, carrying it with you to meet your victim, and driving them to another location to carry out the murder probably more than meets the definition. He was clearly sloppy, and it certainly seems possible that he was wishy-washy to an extent (possibly hoping to talk things out with Lee somehow) but I don't think those things matter too much legally. I'm sure this is clear and does not need to be said, but: I'm not a lawyer.
      - the_mar 3y ago
        Stabbing someone is never really a rational thing, unless it's a self-defense or something.
        JohnBooty 3y ago
        This is where things always get extra confusing when discussing crime. A killing is never really "rational" from an ethical or moral standpoint, except for extraordinary situations like self-defense. But premeditated murders are rational in another, more purely functional sense of the word: the killer was not untethered from reality, they understood the consequences of their actions, and took a series of concrete steps toward achieving the murder.

BeetleB 3y ago

> goes to show some people are complete nut jobs. Best to go slow with most people until they have proven themselves to be non-deranged. For a moment I thought you were referring to all the commenters who thought this was a "SF going lawless" story.

kelp 3y ago
Just because this story isn't evidence of SF being lawless doesn't mean SF isn't lawless. Yes, many many people jumped to some terrible conclusions about SF because of this story. And by American standards SF isn't bad with violent crime. But also the streetscape and property crime in SF are terrible. Both can be true.

grupthink 3y ago

All these people are playing with fire. Nima was jailed twice: 1) DUI 2) illegally selling switch blades. Nima's sister (married) had an affair with Bob Lee (also married).

almost_usual 3y ago
Bob was divorced.
- grupthink 3y ago
  My mistake. Thanks for the correction.