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I don't understand why it isn't solved in this way: You get a banner on your first visit, with a list "here are all the cookies and ways how we use your data,

by Varqu 3y ago

I don't understand why it isn't solved in this way: You get a banner on your first visit, with a list "here are all the cookies and ways how we use your data, if you are not fine with it, please leave this website" This should be an option for small private websites (different rules for FB, Google and alike), because no one forces you to use a site, same as "my house, my rules"

mnw21cam 3y ago
Because that is very explicitly illegal. Consent to harvest personal data that isn't necessary for pure access to the site must not be used as a condition of access.
jnsaff2 3y ago
This would be explicitly forbidden by GDPR. You either don’t serve EU customers or allow them to opt out/in. You can’t degrade or deny service based on consent.
- signatoremo 3y ago
  So what is the difference between “all cookies” and “essential cookies”?
ActorNightly 3y ago
The issue is that there is too much money to be left on the table advertising wise, so instead you are going to see every way to get around anything GDPR that is going to progressively shit up the internet. In the end, you can be tracked without cookies using fingerprinting, and AI will make this job easier and easier. So the banner is pretty much irrelevant technologically. You will also see companies that make popular browsers include features in the browsers for advertising purposes that will make cookies irrelevant - i.e you give consent otherwise the browser doesn't work at all or on websites with relevant content. Best thing to do is really just to let it all go IMO. Its really not a big deal. Between things like VPN and all the privacy tweaking you can do in Firefox, if someone wants privacy they can have it.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > get around anything GDPR Nitpick: none of those dark patterns "get around" the GDPR - they merely get away with it due to a (hopefully temporary) lack of enforcement. GDPR explicitly disallows annoying the user into accepting and tricks such as hiding the decline button, etc. > So the banner is pretty much irrelevant technologically That's why the GDPR doesn't explicitly target cookies or a specific means of tracking but rather the collection and processing of personal data, regardless of technical means (a hypothetical crystal ball that actually worked would also fall in scope). > Between things like VPN and all the privacy tweaking you can do in Firefox, if someone wants privacy they can have it. Even if let's assume there was a way to truly be anonymous and defeat all fingerprinting, how are you going to do business on the internet? At some point you will need to enter personal data, whether it's to buy something, sign up for real-world thing, etc. No amount of VPNs or plugins will save you if you enter your delivery address because you bought something. GDPR or similar legislation is the only way around it - you should be able to enter your delivery address without consenting to it being used for malicious purposes such as advertising.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Meh, they will never be able to punish sites that arguably hide disallowing.
  - ActorNightly 3y ago
    The point is to allow someone the option to defeat all fingerprinting if they want to. The consequences of that are up to the companies - if they don't want to sell you something because you are anonymous, they have the right to reject your browser requests. Thats an important cornerstone of capitalism. Even with limits on collection/processing of personal data, because the legislation was made by non technical people, there are always ways around it. For example, lets say company has an advertising ml model that they use that essentially identifies visitors by fingerprint and maps them to some advertising targeting. They can train that model and throw away the training data, and then hand that model off to any regulator that is going to have no idea what to do with a bunch of floats in matrices, and claim that there is no user data stored in there, and nobody could prove otherwise.
goodpoint 3y ago
> "my house, my rules" A website is in no way "your house".
- goodpoint 3y ago
  Regardless of the silent downvotes, it's still true.
- Varqu 3y ago
  Why not? Essentially, if I build and host a hobby site, it's my digital property. You have the right to see what are the conditions to visit (essentially: fetch) it and if you don't agree, you are free to go.
  - goodpoint 3y ago
    That's in no way comparable with walking into somebody's home. Publishing a website is a form of communication.

by Varqu 3y ago

mnw21cam 3y ago

Because that is very explicitly illegal. Consent to harvest personal data that isn't necessary for pure access to the site must not be used as a condition of access.

jnsaff2 3y ago

This would be explicitly forbidden by GDPR. You either don’t serve EU customers or allow them to opt out/in. You can’t degrade or deny service based on consent.

signatoremo 3y ago
So what is the difference between “all cookies” and “essential cookies”?

ActorNightly 3y ago

The issue is that there is too much money to be left on the table advertising wise, so instead you are going to see every way to get around anything GDPR that is going to progressively shit up the internet. In the end, you can be tracked without cookies using fingerprinting, and AI will make this job easier and easier. So the banner is pretty much irrelevant technologically. You will also see companies that make popular browsers include features in the browsers for advertising purposes that will make cookies irrelevant - i.e you give consent otherwise the browser doesn't work at all or on websites with relevant content. Best thing to do is really just to let it all go IMO. Its really not a big deal. Between things like VPN and all the privacy tweaking you can do in Firefox, if someone wants privacy they can have it.

Nextgrid 3y ago
> get around anything GDPR Nitpick: none of those dark patterns "get around" the GDPR - they merely get away with it due to a (hopefully temporary) lack of enforcement. GDPR explicitly disallows annoying the user into accepting and tricks such as hiding the decline button, etc. > So the banner is pretty much irrelevant technologically That's why the GDPR doesn't explicitly target cookies or a specific means of tracking but rather the collection and processing of personal data, regardless of technical means (a hypothetical crystal ball that actually worked would also fall in scope). > Between things like VPN and all the privacy tweaking you can do in Firefox, if someone wants privacy they can have it. Even if let's assume there was a way to truly be anonymous and defeat all fingerprinting, how are you going to do business on the internet? At some point you will need to enter personal data, whether it's to buy something, sign up for real-world thing, etc. No amount of VPNs or plugins will save you if you enter your delivery address because you bought something. GDPR or similar legislation is the only way around it - you should be able to enter your delivery address without consenting to it being used for malicious purposes such as advertising.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Meh, they will never be able to punish sites that arguably hide disallowing.
- ActorNightly 3y ago
  The point is to allow someone the option to defeat all fingerprinting if they want to. The consequences of that are up to the companies - if they don't want to sell you something because you are anonymous, they have the right to reject your browser requests. Thats an important cornerstone of capitalism. Even with limits on collection/processing of personal data, because the legislation was made by non technical people, there are always ways around it. For example, lets say company has an advertising ml model that they use that essentially identifies visitors by fingerprint and maps them to some advertising targeting. They can train that model and throw away the training data, and then hand that model off to any regulator that is going to have no idea what to do with a bunch of floats in matrices, and claim that there is no user data stored in there, and nobody could prove otherwise.

goodpoint 3y ago

> "my house, my rules" A website is in no way "your house".

goodpoint 3y ago
Regardless of the silent downvotes, it's still true.
Varqu 3y ago
Why not? Essentially, if I build and host a hobby site, it's my digital property. You have the right to see what are the conditions to visit (essentially: fetch) it and if you don't agree, you are free to go.
- goodpoint 3y ago
  That's in no way comparable with walking into somebody's home. Publishing a website is a form of communication.