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My personal take on this: only humans are creative. If a human is using ChatGPT as a tool then that is creativity. Same as using a sampler or DJing or saying a

My personal take on this: only humans are creative. If a human is using ChatGPT as a tool then that is creativity. Same as using a sampler or DJing or saying a urinal is art (found objects). If the process does not involve a human, we simply do not call it creative, even if it is the same (which it is not clear it is).

psychphysic 4y ago
I have no strong opinion on the matter but what is clear is that humans struggle to make use of AI. This is not a novel position. Ghost writers and biography writers exist. Why not make ChatGPT you ghost writer? Tell it what to talk about. Tell it to adjust it to reflect you. And then do the final draft yourself. Obviously if you ask ChatGPT to just write you a book the result will be pants.
- mejutoco 4y ago
  > A client of mine seemed quite insistent that ChatGPT was "creative" I was addressing this point of OP. I agree my POV is not novel, but I believe it is consistent (and simple). > Why not make ChatGPT you ghost writer? Why not. As long as a human is driving the tool, the output will be creative. If the human has nothing to say the output will not be very interesting anyway.
- chongli 4y ago
  I'm skeptical of how useful ChatGPT would be for writing. Truly great writing is a painstaking process. Writers go through many drafts to craft great sentences. Read Hemingway and it's not at all apparent why. But try to write Hemingway? Forget about it! Asking ChatGPT to rewrite a particular sentence over and over again, until it's perfect, does not sound like a particularly efficient or meaningful use of one's time. You've replaced the process of crafting a sentence with the process of crafting a prompt and the relationship between the two is non-obvious. Now I suppose someone will actually try to do it, as some kind of writing exercise. Like that book written without the letter 'e' [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    I believe there is roles for both. The same way a Tesco chocolate custard doughnut and the artisanal one from my local market both exist. It's not all Lord of the Rings or even Game of Thrones out there. We also have Harry Potter and Spot the Dog. Sometimes you want dense detailed intricate plot AI can't do. Sometimes you want sparser text AI is excellent at. (Recently there was a link posted on HN I can't find about the following). Why does my commuter train announce "Please remember to take all your belongings before you leave the train". When "don't leave your stuff" will do? Sometimes wordy is better. Why do we say "yesterday I went shopping" when "yesterday I go shops"? It's a matter of distributing the information content through the sentence as much as possible.
    - chongli 4y ago
      When I used the word writing I meant literature. Of course ChatGPT will be useful for cranking out text where quantity matters more than quality. Corporate speak, PR, ad copy. The problem there is not how good the writing will be, but how much worse things will get from a signal-noise ratio perspective!
borissk 4y ago
Such a definition of creativity can make you feel good, but it's of little practical use. Say you're shown a newly invented piece of tech, but not told who or what invented it - you're saying there's no way to decide if it's truly innovative (as innovation is applied creativity).
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  Of course it was innovative as the person behind the creation had to innovate to make it, as I understand the position.
  - dpkirchner 4y ago
    I think the argument is: you don't know if the tech was made by a person -- it might have been made by an AI. Do you wait to learn if a person was involved before declaring it innovative (or creative)?
    - AlecSchueler 4y ago
      But the original argument was that it could only have been made by a human, either the human who made it themselves or the human who prompted the AI.
- mejutoco 4y ago
  It makes me feel good, indeed. I like to have an opinion on things. In this case "is ChatGPT creative?". > you're saying there's no way to decide if it's truly innovative (as innovation is applied creativity). I am not saying such thing.
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
What is creativity if not an affinity for otherwise low probability action sequences?

psychphysic 4y ago

I have no strong opinion on the matter but what is clear is that humans struggle to make use of AI. This is not a novel position. Ghost writers and biography writers exist. Why not make ChatGPT you ghost writer? Tell it what to talk about. Tell it to adjust it to reflect you. And then do the final draft yourself. Obviously if you ask ChatGPT to just write you a book the result will be pants.

mejutoco 4y ago
> A client of mine seemed quite insistent that ChatGPT was "creative" I was addressing this point of OP. I agree my POV is not novel, but I believe it is consistent (and simple). > Why not make ChatGPT you ghost writer? Why not. As long as a human is driving the tool, the output will be creative. If the human has nothing to say the output will not be very interesting anyway.
chongli 4y ago
I'm skeptical of how useful ChatGPT would be for writing. Truly great writing is a painstaking process. Writers go through many drafts to craft great sentences. Read Hemingway and it's not at all apparent why. But try to write Hemingway? Forget about it! Asking ChatGPT to rewrite a particular sentence over and over again, until it's perfect, does not sound like a particularly efficient or meaningful use of one's time. You've replaced the process of crafting a sentence with the process of crafting a prompt and the relationship between the two is non-obvious. Now I suppose someone will actually try to do it, as some kind of writing exercise. Like that book written without the letter 'e' [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Void
- psychphysic 4y ago
  I believe there is roles for both. The same way a Tesco chocolate custard doughnut and the artisanal one from my local market both exist. It's not all Lord of the Rings or even Game of Thrones out there. We also have Harry Potter and Spot the Dog. Sometimes you want dense detailed intricate plot AI can't do. Sometimes you want sparser text AI is excellent at. (Recently there was a link posted on HN I can't find about the following). Why does my commuter train announce "Please remember to take all your belongings before you leave the train". When "don't leave your stuff" will do? Sometimes wordy is better. Why do we say "yesterday I went shopping" when "yesterday I go shops"? It's a matter of distributing the information content through the sentence as much as possible.
  - chongli 4y ago
    When I used the word writing I meant literature. Of course ChatGPT will be useful for cranking out text where quantity matters more than quality. Corporate speak, PR, ad copy. The problem there is not how good the writing will be, but how much worse things will get from a signal-noise ratio perspective!

borissk 4y ago

Such a definition of creativity can make you feel good, but it's of little practical use. Say you're shown a newly invented piece of tech, but not told who or what invented it - you're saying there's no way to decide if it's truly innovative (as innovation is applied creativity).

AlecSchueler 4y ago
Of course it was innovative as the person behind the creation had to innovate to make it, as I understand the position.
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  I think the argument is: you don't know if the tech was made by a person -- it might have been made by an AI. Do you wait to learn if a person was involved before declaring it innovative (or creative)?
  - AlecSchueler 4y ago
    But the original argument was that it could only have been made by a human, either the human who made it themselves or the human who prompted the AI.
mejutoco 4y ago
It makes me feel good, indeed. I like to have an opinion on things. In this case "is ChatGPT creative?". > you're saying there's no way to decide if it's truly innovative (as innovation is applied creativity). I am not saying such thing.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

What is creativity if not an affinity for otherwise low probability action sequences?