8 ms·

Chipotle plans to ditch gas grills at 100 new locations

21 points by hochmartinez 4y ago

codeddesign 4y ago
100 locations, so it appears it’s for new locations. The bigger question is “Why?” and “How?”. Gas is more cost efficient than electric. So the cost burden has to drop on somebody…likely the consumer. Beyond that, most geographic locations aren’t producing “green” electricity to actually cut down on emissions as Chipotle is claiming. To actually have them cut down on emissions, you essentially have to increase emissions - pulling out raw material, transportation, manufacturing, more transportation..etc. It looks good in marketing, but until we are able to limit emissions in manufacturing and creating electricity, it’s all puff.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Induction stoves. More efficient than gas, more control over heat, and gas distribution pipes leak (we’re spending almost $1B to fix the existing leaky ones). Gas stoves also are unhealthy due to reduction in indoor air quality, a health hazard to both Chipotle line workers and their customers. The electrical grid gets greener every year, gas stoves burn gas their entire life. Just like EVs vs ICE vehicles, and heat pumps vs furnaces. https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_resources/spec_dev_effort/2021_residential_induction_cooking_tops https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res... https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/induction-101-better-cooking-through-science https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/induction-101-b... https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/new-research-reveals-us-gas-pipeline-leaks-have-not-improved-2022-06-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/new-research-re... https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/3/21/23593644/gas-stove-pollution-science-health-risks https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/3/21/23593644/gas-stove-poll... It’s also on brand for Chipotle (healthy food, treat the planet well, all that jazz). If you’re building new, it makes sense to electrify everything. I’m not sure if they’re taking advantage of tax incentives in the inflation reduction act (or their NNN CRE landlords are and passing it through as a tenant allowance), but it would make sense if they did.
  - legitster 4y ago
    This is not technically accurate. a) Health: Most of the studies are VERY preliminary. Only a minor correlation has been found between gas and childhood asthma. And the studies mostly confined themselves to home environments. Commercial kitchens already have much higher standards for ventilation quality. b) Environmental: I think a good case could be made that eventually gas will go away as we transition. But currently it's still being burned off at the wellhead in the US as a waste product. It also only puts out a tiny carbon footprint compared to coal or oil - which would make it a slight improvement over using the average city power grid right now.
    - ratg13 4y ago
      You don’t need a study to tell you inhaling methane, NO, and formaldehyde can be bad for your health. Your argument about the environment is a strawman. The discussion is about gas vs. electric stoves, not gas vs. coal.
  - replygirl 4y ago
    > more efficient than gas if there's anywhere waste should be permissible, it's how people prepare their food. for defenses of that i'd refer to arguments in favor of waste in the medical system that address quality of care and outcomes > more control over heat with gas, i choose how far the pan is from the heat source, and i know how much energy is coming out of the burner no matter what stove i'm using because i can look at the flames > gas distribution pipes leak when the gas goes out, which mine never has, i can cook with the toaster oven and heat my home with space heaters. when the power goes out, as it does a few times a year, i can cook with the stove and heat my home with the furnace
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      > i can look at the flames Samsung and other nice induction units have a visual indicator that while a bit silly from some perspectives, replaces looking at the flames. https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+induction+flame+indicators&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiy6uKDgqj-AhUUM30KHXaSBI0Q0pQJegQIAhAE&biw=1778&bih=1170&dpr=0.9 https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+induction+flame+indi...
- das-hinterland 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Eumenes 4y ago
    Agreed. Chipotle use to be really good but its gone down hardcore over the past 3-4 years. The one near me is manned by 16 year old children who refuse to look you in the eye, can't roll a tight burrito, and forget ordering to-go.
  - lispisok 4y ago
    I'd love to hear lunch options cheaper than Chipotle that arent McDonalds or similar.
  - noahtallen 4y ago
    > Chipotle caters to customers of means. Really weird take. A burrito is $10 after tax in Seattle, a city where lunch can easily be $15 or even $30. While there are certainly cheaper, lower-quality, less-amount-of-food options, Chipotle is definitely not catering to the high-income population. (Price or otherwise)
AussieWog93 4y ago
Cooking on gas stoves is one of the few genuine, sensory pleasures many food-oriented people (myself included) have in life and it's really sad that there seems to be a concerted political effort to take it away. I've used an induction stove for several months, had plenty of time to get used to it and it isn't pleasant to cook on. Please leave us alone and let us enjoy things.
- sealeck 4y ago
  Can you explain how it is a genuine sensory pleasure – do you mean the actual act of cooking or the taste of the food afterwards?
  - Google234 4y ago
    It really matters to me to see the flame when cooking
    - cycrutchfield 4y ago
      Light a candle then
    - sealeck 4y ago
      Does this help you when cooking? I'm an OK but not great cook (or so I like to think) and I tend to just think of a hob as a heat source. I guess the main downside of induction is that you can't pick up the pan?
  - legitster 4y ago
    Gas cooking is very responsive. You can get a similar experience from an induction stove, but the pans have to be much thicker/heavier to get a similar response. Doing a decent stir fry is all but impossible on either induction or standard electric.
    - femiagbabiaka 4y ago
      > Doing a decent stir fry is all but impossible on either induction or standard electric. Not really. Jon Kung makes the positive case for an induction wok better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY. The usage of the wok precedes the gas burner by.. maybe 1500 years? Cooking on an electric range is just something to get used to.
qwertyuiop_ 4y ago
Where is the net new electrical generation capacity to power these 100 new locations coming from not solar panels. Most likely gas turbine generation or coal
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=53779 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=53779 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51698 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51698 https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/24/ferc-says-1700-gw-of-us-renewables-still-awaiting-interconnection/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/24/ferc-says-1700-gw-of-... https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/02/06/2023-will-see-the-most-utility-scale-solar-added-in-a-single-year/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/02/06/2023-will-see-the-mos... Even if provided electricity by gas turbine, it’s more efficient to burn that gas in the turbine and deliver electrons to the stove. Coal is dead by the end of the decade (only one coal fired generator, “Dry Fork”, in Wyoming is cheaper than new renewables in the US). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/30/us-coal-more-expensive-than-renewable-energy-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/30/us-coal-more... https://www.gem.wiki/Dry_Fork_Station https://www.gem.wiki/Dry_Fork_Station
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    Electric generated elsewhere with gas not necessarily more efficient than burning gas in a situation in which the house the stove is in needs to be heated. Same goes for gas water heaters and tank water heaters in general. From there it's a simple calculation of heating need vs efficiency difference to determine which is more efficient in a particular use case.
- rideontime 4y ago
  Source for the “most likely” claim?
- rovolo 4y ago
  They mention 3 locations in the press release, so here are the electric generation types by state https://www.eia.gov/beta/states/overview https://www.eia.gov/beta/states/overview Gloucester, Virginia - 53% gas, 36% nuclear, 6.5% renewable, 4.5% coal Jacksonville, Florida - 70% gas, 15% nuclear, 8.8% coal, 5.2% renewable, 0.9% petrol Castle Rock, Colorado - 41% coal, 30% gas, 29% renewable
aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
legitster 4y ago
There's a lot you can do with an electric flat top, but there are flavor profiles that are literally impossible without direct flame. That smokey char flavor that you get on roasted chicken and beef and vegetables when the flames lick them for example. Part of the thing they are burying here is that because Chipotle has already switched to precooking so many of their food items off site that they are probably going to switch to adding the flavor artificially.
- xapata 4y ago
  Wok hei requires higher heat than they're probably using. And it's carcinogenic, anyway.
  - hellisothers 4y ago
    Everything is carcinogenic, especially all the delicious things.
    - xapata 4y ago
      Not all. I think blueberries are delicious, for example.
- cobalt 4y ago
  most chipotles cook on a flat top anyway, so there is no direct flame
  - legitster 4y ago
    It's been a bit since I have been to a Chipotle, but at the time they used an indoor grill to char their chicken.
- throwway120385 4y ago
  I would like to point out that you don't get those flavor profiles on a gas stove either unless you never cook with a pan. I've used a cast iron skillet on both gas and electric and I get the exact same flavor profile with both. The only difference I've noticed between the two is how concentrated the temperature gradient is. Gas puts a hot spot wherever the flame is whereas electric is pretty even, so you don't hit as high of a temperature on an electric stove even though you're dumping similar amounts of heat into the vicinity of the burner. The best electric stove I've ever cooked on was actually a cheap Ikea induction hot plate. That thing dumped so much energy into my cast iron it would heat up in seconds. Even on the lowest setting I could definitely sear a steak in it. It's way better than gas.

21 points by hochmartinez 4y ago

100 locations, so it appears it’s for new locations. The bigger question is “Why?” and “How?”. Gas is more cost efficient than electric. So the cost burden has to drop on somebody…likely the consumer. Beyond that, most geographic locations aren’t producing “green” electricity to actually cut down on emissions as Chipotle is claiming. To actually have them cut down on emissions, you essentially have to increase emissions - pulling out raw material, transportation, manufacturing, more transportation..etc. It looks good in marketing, but until we are able to limit emissions in manufacturing and creating electricity, it’s all puff.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Induction stoves. More efficient than gas, more control over heat, and gas distribution pipes leak (we’re spending almost $1B to fix the existing leaky ones). Gas stoves also are unhealthy due to reduction in indoor air quality, a health hazard to both Chipotle line workers and their customers. The electrical grid gets greener every year, gas stoves burn gas their entire life. Just like EVs vs ICE vehicles, and heat pumps vs furnaces. https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_resources/spec_dev_effort/2021_residential_induction_cooking_tops https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res... https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/induction-101-better-cooking-through-science https://reviewed.usatoday.com/ovens/features/induction-101-b... https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/new-research-reveals-us-gas-pipeline-leaks-have-not-improved-2022-06-23/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/new-research-re... https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/3/21/23593644/gas-stove-pollution-science-health-risks https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/3/21/23593644/gas-stove-poll... It’s also on brand for Chipotle (healthy food, treat the planet well, all that jazz). If you’re building new, it makes sense to electrify everything. I’m not sure if they’re taking advantage of tax incentives in the inflation reduction act (or their NNN CRE landlords are and passing it through as a tenant allowance), but it would make sense if they did.
- legitster 4y ago
  This is not technically accurate. a) Health: Most of the studies are VERY preliminary. Only a minor correlation has been found between gas and childhood asthma. And the studies mostly confined themselves to home environments. Commercial kitchens already have much higher standards for ventilation quality. b) Environmental: I think a good case could be made that eventually gas will go away as we transition. But currently it's still being burned off at the wellhead in the US as a waste product. It also only puts out a tiny carbon footprint compared to coal or oil - which would make it a slight improvement over using the average city power grid right now.
  - ratg13 4y ago
    You don’t need a study to tell you inhaling methane, NO, and formaldehyde can be bad for your health. Your argument about the environment is a strawman. The discussion is about gas vs. electric stoves, not gas vs. coal.
- replygirl 4y ago
  > more efficient than gas if there's anywhere waste should be permissible, it's how people prepare their food. for defenses of that i'd refer to arguments in favor of waste in the medical system that address quality of care and outcomes > more control over heat with gas, i choose how far the pan is from the heat source, and i know how much energy is coming out of the burner no matter what stove i'm using because i can look at the flames > gas distribution pipes leak when the gas goes out, which mine never has, i can cook with the toaster oven and heat my home with space heaters. when the power goes out, as it does a few times a year, i can cook with the stove and heat my home with the furnace
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    > i can look at the flames Samsung and other nice induction units have a visual indicator that while a bit silly from some perspectives, replaces looking at the flames. https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+induction+flame+indicators&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiy6uKDgqj-AhUUM30KHXaSBI0Q0pQJegQIAhAE&biw=1778&bih=1170&dpr=0.9 https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+induction+flame+indi...
das-hinterland 4y ago
[flagged]
- Eumenes 4y ago
  Agreed. Chipotle use to be really good but its gone down hardcore over the past 3-4 years. The one near me is manned by 16 year old children who refuse to look you in the eye, can't roll a tight burrito, and forget ordering to-go.
- lispisok 4y ago
  I'd love to hear lunch options cheaper than Chipotle that arent McDonalds or similar.
- noahtallen 4y ago
  > Chipotle caters to customers of means. Really weird take. A burrito is $10 after tax in Seattle, a city where lunch can easily be $15 or even $30. While there are certainly cheaper, lower-quality, less-amount-of-food options, Chipotle is definitely not catering to the high-income population. (Price or otherwise)

AussieWog93 4y ago

Cooking on gas stoves is one of the few genuine, sensory pleasures many food-oriented people (myself included) have in life and it's really sad that there seems to be a concerted political effort to take it away. I've used an induction stove for several months, had plenty of time to get used to it and it isn't pleasant to cook on. Please leave us alone and let us enjoy things.

sealeck 4y ago
Can you explain how it is a genuine sensory pleasure – do you mean the actual act of cooking or the taste of the food afterwards?
- Google234 4y ago
  It really matters to me to see the flame when cooking
  - cycrutchfield 4y ago
    Light a candle then
  - sealeck 4y ago
    Does this help you when cooking? I'm an OK but not great cook (or so I like to think) and I tend to just think of a hob as a heat source. I guess the main downside of induction is that you can't pick up the pan?
- legitster 4y ago
  Gas cooking is very responsive. You can get a similar experience from an induction stove, but the pans have to be much thicker/heavier to get a similar response. Doing a decent stir fry is all but impossible on either induction or standard electric.
  - femiagbabiaka 4y ago
    > Doing a decent stir fry is all but impossible on either induction or standard electric. Not really. Jon Kung makes the positive case for an induction wok better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY. The usage of the wok precedes the gas burner by.. maybe 1500 years? Cooking on an electric range is just something to get used to.

qwertyuiop_ 4y ago

Where is the net new electrical generation capacity to power these 100 new locations coming from not solar panels. Most likely gas turbine generation or coal

toomuchtodo 4y ago
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46416 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=53779 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=53779 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51698 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51698 https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/24/ferc-says-1700-gw-of-us-renewables-still-awaiting-interconnection/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/24/ferc-says-1700-gw-of-... https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/02/06/2023-will-see-the-most-utility-scale-solar-added-in-a-single-year/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2023/02/06/2023-will-see-the-mos... Even if provided electricity by gas turbine, it’s more efficient to burn that gas in the turbine and deliver electrons to the stove. Coal is dead by the end of the decade (only one coal fired generator, “Dry Fork”, in Wyoming is cheaper than new renewables in the US). https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/30/us-coal-more-expensive-than-renewable-energy-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/30/us-coal-more... https://www.gem.wiki/Dry_Fork_Station https://www.gem.wiki/Dry_Fork_Station
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Electric generated elsewhere with gas not necessarily more efficient than burning gas in a situation in which the house the stove is in needs to be heated. Same goes for gas water heaters and tank water heaters in general. From there it's a simple calculation of heating need vs efficiency difference to determine which is more efficient in a particular use case.
rideontime 4y ago
Source for the “most likely” claim?
rovolo 4y ago
They mention 3 locations in the press release, so here are the electric generation types by state https://www.eia.gov/beta/states/overview https://www.eia.gov/beta/states/overview Gloucester, Virginia - 53% gas, 36% nuclear, 6.5% renewable, 4.5% coal Jacksonville, Florida - 70% gas, 15% nuclear, 8.8% coal, 5.2% renewable, 0.9% petrol Castle Rock, Colorado - 41% coal, 30% gas, 29% renewable

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

legitster 4y ago

There's a lot you can do with an electric flat top, but there are flavor profiles that are literally impossible without direct flame. That smokey char flavor that you get on roasted chicken and beef and vegetables when the flames lick them for example. Part of the thing they are burying here is that because Chipotle has already switched to precooking so many of their food items off site that they are probably going to switch to adding the flavor artificially.

xapata 4y ago
Wok hei requires higher heat than they're probably using. And it's carcinogenic, anyway.
- hellisothers 4y ago
  Everything is carcinogenic, especially all the delicious things.
  - xapata 4y ago
    Not all. I think blueberries are delicious, for example.
cobalt 4y ago
most chipotles cook on a flat top anyway, so there is no direct flame
- legitster 4y ago
  It's been a bit since I have been to a Chipotle, but at the time they used an indoor grill to char their chicken.
throwway120385 4y ago
I would like to point out that you don't get those flavor profiles on a gas stove either unless you never cook with a pan. I've used a cast iron skillet on both gas and electric and I get the exact same flavor profile with both. The only difference I've noticed between the two is how concentrated the temperature gradient is. Gas puts a hot spot wherever the flame is whereas electric is pretty even, so you don't hit as high of a temperature on an electric stove even though you're dumping similar amounts of heat into the vicinity of the burner. The best electric stove I've ever cooked on was actually a cheap Ikea induction hot plate. That thing dumped so much energy into my cast iron it would heat up in seconds. Even on the lowest setting I could definitely sear a steak in it. It's way better than gas.