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Completely unaware of this social network. What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? A conversational paper

Completely unaware of this social network. What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? A conversational paper trail? The latter would be interesting for areas where conversations should be on the record, however in cases that people want their conversations off the record they’d just use a side channel. The UK govt communicates using WhatsApp for Christ’s sake. So it’d need to be something where both parties fundamentally benefit from the ability to verify that a post, or a conversation, took place. Where would that even apply?

joemi 4y ago
> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? I think the problem it's trying to solve is: "How can we mix social networking with blockchain?"
carlmr 4y ago
Maybe betting? Both sides are usually interested in recording the bet.
an_ko 4y ago
To my understanding, it allows messages on the network to have a total order, even when fully decentralised. Without a hash chain, clients could not tell what order events happened in, and might display them ordered differently, which would change a conversation's meaning. The traditional alternative is logical clocks, but a malicious participant could forge those, so they're not suitable for a fully distributed system run by random users.
aftbit 4y ago
AFAIK it was intended to support the use case of being occasionally connected to the internet (one author spent a lot of time on a small sailboat in the south Pacific), while maintaining an order of messages.
- nradov 4y ago
  Lotus Notes solved that problem over 30 years ago.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    And newsgroups, email, uucp etc.
grey_earthling 4y ago
> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? (SSB is blockchain in the strict sense, but there's no proof of work or anything like that. Each feed is its own append-only chain with its own private key.) For SSB, the aim was to be able to gossip feeds via untrusted intermediaries, with patchy network connections all round, and be sure that the intermediaries haven't added, changed or removed any posts in the feed. The protocol's designer lives on a boat in New Zealand, and other collaborators live in remote areas in different time zones. One adjustment to the protocol that seems to me like a quick win (but presumably has some technical hitch I can't see, since I don't recall anyone suggesting this) would be to not include the post's body in the “block” (in the message itself that gets hashed and signed by the next message), but rather as a “blob” (essentially an attachment) which others don't need to download in order to verify the feed. That way old messages could be effectively forgotten if all peers co-operate (and no-one took a screenshot, etc).
- rinor 4y ago
  I'm working on something in this space, though god knows if I'll ever finish it. And that's one of two approaches I considered to that problem. Another is to have a signed deletion marker saying something to the effect of "there was a block here with hash d9841a, but now there isn't anymore, and I'm its replacement".
- evbogue 4y ago
  > One adjustment to the protocol that seems to me like a quick win (but presumably has some technical hitch I can't see, since I don't recall anyone suggesting this) would be to not include the post's body in the “block” (in the message itself that gets hashed and signed by the next message), but rather as a “blob” (essentially an attachment) which others don't need to download in order to verify the feed. There's nothing to prevent you from taking this route, you just sign a blob hash instead of an entire message object. I work on an experimental SSB-like-protocol in my spare time that does exactly what you've suggested: https://github.com/evbogue/bogbook https://github.com/evbogue/bogbook I don't know if this makes the network forget more, but the aim is to reduce the time it takes to sync and get started.
- 4y ago
Vendan 4y ago
It's about as much blockchain as git is blockchain, so... not really blockchain at all...
grapesurgeon 4y ago
[dead]
this_user 4y ago
> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? The problem of justifying the existence of blockchains.
ilyt 4y ago
Same problem every problem using blockchain tries to solve. Getting funded by people thinking it will be next big thing.
fardo 4y ago
> Where would that even apply? That sounds like it could be useful in legal and policing contexts. One complaint I’ve often heard about body cameras in policing is the possibility of footage that was created and did indeed exist being “lost”, with the implication being that legal entities intentionally destroyed evidence of either the footage existing, or its contents. To the extent that this centralized authority issue applies to textual data or metadata, decentralized records of messaging times and contents would potentially be an invaluable tool of transparency and promoting systemic confidence in a visible shared audit trail.
blackshaw 4y ago
> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? The same as every other blockchain application: the problem that no-one has found a practical use for Blockchain despite 14 years of effort, but that blockchainers continually need the next wave of hype so that their coins don't lose value.
seanhunter 4y ago
> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? A conversational paper trail? I would say the main interesting problem to solve is how to have a social network with a shared state without requiring a all-powerful central party like the existing solutions. Blockchain solutions allow a consensus about what is in the network without this. If you don't care about the social network state diverging endlessly that's not a problem, but part of the "social" part of social networking is that users expect to see broadly the same messages or at least that all messages are drawing from a common well in the sense that I can choose not to follow a particular person or conversation, but if I do follow them/it then I see the same set of messages as others who are following. This is how we have a shared conversation. Edit: Not saying this is the only or best way to do this, but it is one way and I believe this to be the problem blockchain social networks are trying to solve. eg these guys are building a blockchain social network and it's explicitly one of their goals https://www.projectliberty.io/ https://www.projectliberty.io/

joemi 4y ago

> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? I think the problem it's trying to solve is: "How can we mix social networking with blockchain?"

carlmr 4y ago

Maybe betting? Both sides are usually interested in recording the bet.

an_ko 4y ago

To my understanding, it allows messages on the network to have a total order, even when fully decentralised. Without a hash chain, clients could not tell what order events happened in, and might display them ordered differently, which would change a conversation's meaning. The traditional alternative is logical clocks, but a malicious participant could forge those, so they're not suitable for a fully distributed system run by random users.

aftbit 4y ago

AFAIK it was intended to support the use case of being occasionally connected to the internet (one author spent a lot of time on a small sailboat in the south Pacific), while maintaining an order of messages.

nradov 4y ago
Lotus Notes solved that problem over 30 years ago.
- ilyt 4y ago
  And newsgroups, email, uucp etc.

grey_earthling 4y ago

> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? (SSB is blockchain in the strict sense, but there's no proof of work or anything like that. Each feed is its own append-only chain with its own private key.) For SSB, the aim was to be able to gossip feeds via untrusted intermediaries, with patchy network connections all round, and be sure that the intermediaries haven't added, changed or removed any posts in the feed. The protocol's designer lives on a boat in New Zealand, and other collaborators live in remote areas in different time zones. One adjustment to the protocol that seems to me like a quick win (but presumably has some technical hitch I can't see, since I don't recall anyone suggesting this) would be to not include the post's body in the “block” (in the message itself that gets hashed and signed by the next message), but rather as a “blob” (essentially an attachment) which others don't need to download in order to verify the feed. That way old messages could be effectively forgotten if all peers co-operate (and no-one took a screenshot, etc).

rinor 4y ago
I'm working on something in this space, though god knows if I'll ever finish it. And that's one of two approaches I considered to that problem. Another is to have a signed deletion marker saying something to the effect of "there was a block here with hash d9841a, but now there isn't anymore, and I'm its replacement".
evbogue 4y ago
> One adjustment to the protocol that seems to me like a quick win (but presumably has some technical hitch I can't see, since I don't recall anyone suggesting this) would be to not include the post's body in the “block” (in the message itself that gets hashed and signed by the next message), but rather as a “blob” (essentially an attachment) which others don't need to download in order to verify the feed. There's nothing to prevent you from taking this route, you just sign a blob hash instead of an entire message object. I work on an experimental SSB-like-protocol in my spare time that does exactly what you've suggested: https://github.com/evbogue/bogbook https://github.com/evbogue/bogbook I don't know if this makes the network forget more, but the aim is to reduce the time it takes to sync and get started.
4y ago

Vendan 4y ago

It's about as much blockchain as git is blockchain, so... not really blockchain at all...

grapesurgeon 4y ago

[dead]

this_user 4y ago

> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? The problem of justifying the existence of blockchains.

ilyt 4y ago

Same problem every problem using blockchain tries to solve. Getting funded by people thinking it will be next big thing.

fardo 4y ago

> Where would that even apply? That sounds like it could be useful in legal and policing contexts. One complaint I’ve often heard about body cameras in policing is the possibility of footage that was created and did indeed exist being “lost”, with the implication being that legal entities intentionally destroyed evidence of either the footage existing, or its contents. To the extent that this centralized authority issue applies to textual data or metadata, decentralized records of messaging times and contents would potentially be an invaluable tool of transparency and promoting systemic confidence in a visible shared audit trail.

blackshaw 4y ago

> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? The same as every other blockchain application: the problem that no-one has found a practical use for Blockchain despite 14 years of effort, but that blockchainers continually need the next wave of hype so that their coins don't lose value.

seanhunter 4y ago

> What problem, exactly, is a blockchain based social network trying to solve? Proof of origin? A conversational paper trail? I would say the main interesting problem to solve is how to have a social network with a shared state without requiring a all-powerful central party like the existing solutions. Blockchain solutions allow a consensus about what is in the network without this. If you don't care about the social network state diverging endlessly that's not a problem, but part of the "social" part of social networking is that users expect to see broadly the same messages or at least that all messages are drawing from a common well in the sense that I can choose not to follow a particular person or conversation, but if I do follow them/it then I see the same set of messages as others who are following. This is how we have a shared conversation. Edit: Not saying this is the only or best way to do this, but it is one way and I believe this to be the problem blockchain social networks are trying to solve. eg these guys are building a blockchain social network and it's explicitly one of their goals https://www.projectliberty.io/ https://www.projectliberty.io/