8 ms·

Classism (lack of social mobility, dehumanization of homeless, etc...) is a more pressing problem to US society than whatever remain of institutional racism, bu

by kwere 4y ago

Classism (lack of social mobility, dehumanization of homeless, etc...) is a more pressing problem to US society than whatever remain of institutional racism, but it doesnt get nothing of the airtime in the public sphere; influential community/thought leaders usually look more interested into getting into the next performative gig/grift to pay their high class lifestyle. what could be done?

adamrezich 4y ago
nothing. they want the people divided along arbitrary lines, so we'll keep arguing with each other, instead of seeing the actual hierarchies that matter for what they are and potentially doing something about it. yesterday someone submitted an opinion piece to HN, from an American black female lawyer, who decried the focus on "institutional racism" that her children were being taught at school, because, in her view, her children were being taught that, by virtue of being black, they were something of a permanent underclass. the article was [flagged] and [dead] within thirty minutes. some of the few comments before the post was [dead] implied that, since the author of the piece had become a lawyer, she was seemingly only capable of looking at racial issues through a legalistic lens, which was blinding her to The Real Issues About Race At Play Here. literally explaining how a black woman somehow wasn't aware of all of the societal factors at play that were supposed to keep her down… even though she seems to be doing fine as both a lawyer and mother—surely she had personally encountered whatever implicit institutional racism that was supposed to keep her from finding success, such that she felt it unnecessary to mention them in her piece? surely her views are more valid than whatever performative platitudes someone who wasn't in her shoes had to say about her and her children's situation? but, no. [flagged] and [dead] within 30 minutes, because we can't discuss any perspective on this situation other than the mainstream progressive orthodoxy, apparently.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  Do you happen to have a link? That sounds like an interesting read.
  - adamrezich 4y ago
    "Teaching Hopelessness to Kids of Color" https://open.substack.com/pub/freeblackthought/p/teaching-hopelessness-to-kids-of https://open.substack.com/pub/freeblackthought/p/teaching-ho...
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      Thanks! And the HN post in case anyone else is curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35544722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35544722
mrguyorama 4y ago
How can you actually seperate classism and racism in the US though? Slavery was forced low class by virtue of race, and that handicapped black people even after emancipation, let alone the times the country has explicitly harmed people for being black even when they aren't low class, like the burning of black wall street or the horrific hatred directed at Obama that's only really explained as racism.
- LargeTomato 4y ago
  >How can you actually seperate classism and racism in the US though? Is it not self evident? They're entirely different.
- adamrezich 4y ago
  nobody can deny that the descendents of slavery have been dealt a terrible hand, but what makes you think that any and all animosity toward President Obama existed specifically, solely because of the color of his skin? surely you don't believe that he was an otherwise objectively perfect President, such that the only criticism anyone could have of him was racially-motivated? what positive Change did he end up doing for American black people while in office for eight years, anyway? (am I being racist by asking this?) and how do you square all this with the hatred for his white successor, which was, objectively, several orders of magnitude greater? also, how do you square your thesis with the existence of black Republican politicians—surely anyone who was racially critical of Obama would also be equally racially critical of black elected officials in their own party?
  - simplotek 4y ago
    > (...) what makes you think that any and all animosity toward President Obama existed specifically, solely because of the color of his skin? You picked an awfully disingenuous way of framing your question. Just because you can find someone who dislikes Obama because of some random reason that does not reject or refute the pervasiveness of racism as a factor in the vitriolic hatred directed at him. https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/politics/carl-paladino-remarks-about-obamas-mistake/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/politics/carl-paladino-re... https://time.com/4573554/michelle-obama-racism-first-lady/ https://time.com/4573554/michelle-obama-racism-first-lady/
v0idzer0 4y ago
One could argue that racism itself was actually just an act of classism. Slavery was motivated by capitalism (free labor) and slaves of the same race existed in places with only a single race. As public opinion shifted against slavery (you know because it’s abhorrent) a clever tactic of the capitalists was to use racism to dehumanize a particular race and therefore quiet the concerns of those wondering how we can treat our fellow humans this way. Racism was institutionalized to further the cause of classism.

by kwere 4y ago

adamrezich 4y ago

nothing. they want the people divided along arbitrary lines, so we'll keep arguing with each other, instead of seeing the actual hierarchies that matter for what they are and potentially doing something about it. yesterday someone submitted an opinion piece to HN, from an American black female lawyer, who decried the focus on "institutional racism" that her children were being taught at school, because, in her view, her children were being taught that, by virtue of being black, they were something of a permanent underclass. the article was [flagged] and [dead] within thirty minutes. some of the few comments before the post was [dead] implied that, since the author of the piece had become a lawyer, she was seemingly only capable of looking at racial issues through a legalistic lens, which was blinding her to The Real Issues About Race At Play Here. literally explaining how a black woman somehow wasn't aware of all of the societal factors at play that were supposed to keep her down… even though she seems to be doing fine as both a lawyer and mother—surely she had personally encountered whatever implicit institutional racism that was supposed to keep her from finding success, such that she felt it unnecessary to mention them in her piece? surely her views are more valid than whatever performative platitudes someone who wasn't in her shoes had to say about her and her children's situation? but, no. [flagged] and [dead] within 30 minutes, because we can't discuss any perspective on this situation other than the mainstream progressive orthodoxy, apparently.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
Do you happen to have a link? That sounds like an interesting read.
- adamrezich 4y ago
  "Teaching Hopelessness to Kids of Color" https://open.substack.com/pub/freeblackthought/p/teaching-hopelessness-to-kids-of https://open.substack.com/pub/freeblackthought/p/teaching-ho...
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    Thanks! And the HN post in case anyone else is curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35544722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35544722

mrguyorama 4y ago

How can you actually seperate classism and racism in the US though? Slavery was forced low class by virtue of race, and that handicapped black people even after emancipation, let alone the times the country has explicitly harmed people for being black even when they aren't low class, like the burning of black wall street or the horrific hatred directed at Obama that's only really explained as racism.

LargeTomato 4y ago
>How can you actually seperate classism and racism in the US though? Is it not self evident? They're entirely different.
adamrezich 4y ago
nobody can deny that the descendents of slavery have been dealt a terrible hand, but what makes you think that any and all animosity toward President Obama existed specifically, solely because of the color of his skin? surely you don't believe that he was an otherwise objectively perfect President, such that the only criticism anyone could have of him was racially-motivated? what positive Change did he end up doing for American black people while in office for eight years, anyway? (am I being racist by asking this?) and how do you square all this with the hatred for his white successor, which was, objectively, several orders of magnitude greater? also, how do you square your thesis with the existence of black Republican politicians—surely anyone who was racially critical of Obama would also be equally racially critical of black elected officials in their own party?
- simplotek 4y ago
  > (...) what makes you think that any and all animosity toward President Obama existed specifically, solely because of the color of his skin? You picked an awfully disingenuous way of framing your question. Just because you can find someone who dislikes Obama because of some random reason that does not reject or refute the pervasiveness of racism as a factor in the vitriolic hatred directed at him. https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/politics/carl-paladino-remarks-about-obamas-mistake/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/28/politics/carl-paladino-re... https://time.com/4573554/michelle-obama-racism-first-lady/ https://time.com/4573554/michelle-obama-racism-first-lady/

v0idzer0 4y ago

One could argue that racism itself was actually just an act of classism. Slavery was motivated by capitalism (free labor) and slaves of the same race existed in places with only a single race. As public opinion shifted against slavery (you know because it’s abhorrent) a clever tactic of the capitalists was to use racism to dehumanize a particular race and therefore quiet the concerns of those wondering how we can treat our fellow humans this way. Racism was institutionalized to further the cause of classism.