6 ms·

The linked article specifically shows that violent crime in SF is at an all time low, and lower than most other comparably sized cities.

P_I_Staker 4y ago
Didn't SF used to be freaking scary prior to blowing up? I've heard people talk about it like they do Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, ect. An undesirable place that washed up people ended up, riddled with crime and violence. I think I might be getting the story wrong, but I recall hearing there used to be much more crime.
- wombatpm 4y ago
  I never thought the issue was violent crime. More like the constant low-level theft and public urination from the homeless, drug addicts, and mentally ill.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  I don't understand why Miami is ln your list. It seems clean and thriving.
  - microtherion 4y ago
    According to Wikipedia, Miami has nearly twice the murder rate of San Francisco, and more than three times the rate of New York City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
    - js2 4y ago
      11.23 per 100K. Tusla has a higher murder rate. You're about as likely to die in an automobile crash nation wide (11.1 per 100K), and in Florida, more likely (15.4 per 100K). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7126a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7126a1.htm https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... Lies, damned lies, and statistics. We're all afraid of all the wrong things.
      - selimthegrim 4y ago
        Assuming you mean Tulsa, OK, rather than Tuzla, BH.
        js2 4y ago
        Ah, indeed. I had to read your comment several times before I finally realized my typo.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    I was nearly shot by a gang in Miami for parking in front of the wrong house with a white panel van with tinted windows. Never had such an experience in any other US city. I managed to get away after a five minute high speed chase on city streets. Cops were nowhere in sight at any point and time was of the essence so calling 911 was not an option.
  - asdff 4y ago
    IMO miami is a highly class segregated area. You really don't see the working class areas while there visiting or on vacation unless you go out of your way to see them.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    Because I recently visited and two people were murdered in quick succession during spring break. They shut down Miami beach last year, due to back to back days of people shooting into crowds. In general, it just seemed wild and crazy. I really don't understand what you're talking about.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      Are the incidents you witnessed the common case, or outliers? That kinda makes all the difference.
- drewda 4y ago
  A great read on that very topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_of_the_Witch:_Enchantment,_Terror,_and_Deliverance_in_the_City_of_Love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_of_the_Witch:_Enchantme...
- js2 4y ago
  The crap? I grew up in Miami. It's a lovely city, not "an undesirable place that washed up people ended up, riddled with crime and violence." FFS.
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    It's all about whatever world view or narrative makes us feel emotionally comfy these days. Calling Detroit, Baltimore and Miami war zones makes a lot of people out there feel emotionally comfortable. (And also illustrates how many of us are, fortunately, completely unfamiliar with actual war zones.) I wouldn't put too much weight in those kinds of comments.
    - P_I_Staker 4y ago
      I get where you're coming from. However, my opinion was based on physically being there back to back years when there were multiple shootings in public places (though not at the actual shootings). That and the fact that it was extremely violent in the 80s. This isn't just some media driven hysteria.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    I'm sure it has nice spots and you can make a good life for yourself. However, I can assure you that historically, it's exactly that (though maybe not undesirable)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - asveikau 4y ago
    Since the victim lived in Miami most recently, a lot of people writing about this case commented about crime statistics and it seemed to me that based on the data, Miami is a more dangerous place than San Francisco, with more murder, rape, assault, etc. I think where to draw the line is this "undesirable place" business. That's highly subjective, judgemental, and can cause you to lose sight of a lot.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  you might be thinking of the pervasive non-violent crimes like people doing drugs in the bustling business and shopping districts and shitting right on the sidewalk in the same. it's long been infamous for that.
- pfisherman 4y ago
  Maybe Bayview / Hunter’s Point / Sunnydale. But SF has never been a dangerous place. Not like Oakland or Richmond. Crime was much higher everywhere in the 80s and 90s.
- mcguire 4y ago
  SF's population declined between 1950 and 1980, and it's homicide rate between roughly 1970 and the mid-1990s was up to 2 or 3 times what it is now.
joemazerino 4y ago
Not "all time low" but a 40 year low. Its easy to fuzz numbers when you start extremely high.
- mikeryan 4y ago
  San Francisco has had a relatively low, and consistent violent crime rate for about 20 years. Conversely it’s also had a consistently higher property crime rate.
- mlyle 4y ago
  Possibly an all-time low. It's hard to compare numbers >40 years old, because they very possibly are not measuring the same things. As to ease when you "start extremely high" -- SF is now safer, when it comes to violent crime, than most major cities in the US. What it does have is an extremely high rate of quality of life crime.
  - bink 4y ago
    As an example: domestic violence was absolutely not treated the same >40 years ago and the odds of it being reported at all were quite a bit lower.
- mcguire 4y ago
  According to the chart, the current homicide rate is about 7/100,000. I found a spreadsheet showing homicides going back to 1849. The rate between 1968 (happy birthday to me) and 1996 is significantly higher than now, bouncing around between 10 and 20. Between 1920 and 1967, it bounces around between a low of 2 (1938) and 9. The 1870s were another relatively high period. Interestingly, San Francisco's population declined from 775,000 in 1950 to 679,000 in 1980. Sources: Homicide in San Francisco, 1849-2003 (https://cjrc.osu.edu/research/interdisciplinary/hvd/united-states/san-francisco https://cjrc.osu.edu/research/interdisciplinary/hvd/united-s...) Historical population of San Francisco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco) plus some linear interpolation
  - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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throwaway292939 4y ago
Sure. However the "lack of safety" perception is real too. If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. But if you're an SF native, you've learned to shrug it off as a commonplace occurrence. You've learned to become thick skinned towards these incidences. And when a real crime has happened, you'd likely assign more gravitas to it. This is why there is a disconnect between numbers and quoted statistics and how people feel.
- throwaway292939 4y ago
  People who are downvoting this... care to justify your point of view? Genuinely curious.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. Depending on what they say, isn't that still technically "assault"? Or "disturbing the peace"? Also, if there's poop all over the sidewalks, those are all crimes too. The problem is that all these petty crimes are generally never reported, and certainly not acted upon by police. So they never show up in the crime statistics. There's a disconnect between the numbers and quoted statistics and reality, because the statistics come from the police, and their reporting isn't accurate. It isn't accurate anywhere of course, because police aren't perfect and many crimes go unreported for various reasons, but to SF natives, it may seem that this is worse in SF than other places, or in SF in earlier times.
  - throwaway292939 4y ago
    Say it is an assault. Some guy / lady yelled at you for 10 seconds aggressively. Are you now going to call the cops / file a police report? I think a majority of people would just move on with their day. So yes, to your point, this wouldn't show up in any statistics.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
rwalle 4y ago
[flagged]

P_I_Staker 4y ago

Didn't SF used to be freaking scary prior to blowing up? I've heard people talk about it like they do Miami, Baltimore, Detroit, ect. An undesirable place that washed up people ended up, riddled with crime and violence. I think I might be getting the story wrong, but I recall hearing there used to be much more crime.

wombatpm 4y ago
I never thought the issue was violent crime. More like the constant low-level theft and public urination from the homeless, drug addicts, and mentally ill.
xyzelement 4y ago
I don't understand why Miami is ln your list. It seems clean and thriving.
- microtherion 4y ago
  According to Wikipedia, Miami has nearly twice the murder rate of San Francisco, and more than three times the rate of New York City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
  - js2 4y ago
    11.23 per 100K. Tusla has a higher murder rate. You're about as likely to die in an automobile crash nation wide (11.1 per 100K), and in Florida, more likely (15.4 per 100K). https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7126a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7126a1.htm https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... Lies, damned lies, and statistics. We're all afraid of all the wrong things.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      Assuming you mean Tulsa, OK, rather than Tuzla, BH.
      - js2 4y ago
        Ah, indeed. I had to read your comment several times before I finally realized my typo.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  I was nearly shot by a gang in Miami for parking in front of the wrong house with a white panel van with tinted windows. Never had such an experience in any other US city. I managed to get away after a five minute high speed chase on city streets. Cops were nowhere in sight at any point and time was of the essence so calling 911 was not an option.
- asdff 4y ago
  IMO miami is a highly class segregated area. You really don't see the working class areas while there visiting or on vacation unless you go out of your way to see them.
- P_I_Staker 4y ago
  Because I recently visited and two people were murdered in quick succession during spring break. They shut down Miami beach last year, due to back to back days of people shooting into crowds. In general, it just seemed wild and crazy. I really don't understand what you're talking about.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    Are the incidents you witnessed the common case, or outliers? That kinda makes all the difference.
drewda 4y ago
A great read on that very topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_of_the_Witch:_Enchantment,_Terror,_and_Deliverance_in_the_City_of_Love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season_of_the_Witch:_Enchantme...
js2 4y ago
The crap? I grew up in Miami. It's a lovely city, not "an undesirable place that washed up people ended up, riddled with crime and violence." FFS.
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  It's all about whatever world view or narrative makes us feel emotionally comfy these days. Calling Detroit, Baltimore and Miami war zones makes a lot of people out there feel emotionally comfortable. (And also illustrates how many of us are, fortunately, completely unfamiliar with actual war zones.) I wouldn't put too much weight in those kinds of comments.
  - P_I_Staker 4y ago
    I get where you're coming from. However, my opinion was based on physically being there back to back years when there were multiple shootings in public places (though not at the actual shootings). That and the fact that it was extremely violent in the 80s. This isn't just some media driven hysteria.
- P_I_Staker 4y ago
  I'm sure it has nice spots and you can make a good life for yourself. However, I can assure you that historically, it's exactly that (though maybe not undesirable)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- asveikau 4y ago
  Since the victim lived in Miami most recently, a lot of people writing about this case commented about crime statistics and it seemed to me that based on the data, Miami is a more dangerous place than San Francisco, with more murder, rape, assault, etc. I think where to draw the line is this "undesirable place" business. That's highly subjective, judgemental, and can cause you to lose sight of a lot.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
you might be thinking of the pervasive non-violent crimes like people doing drugs in the bustling business and shopping districts and shitting right on the sidewalk in the same. it's long been infamous for that.
pfisherman 4y ago
Maybe Bayview / Hunter’s Point / Sunnydale. But SF has never been a dangerous place. Not like Oakland or Richmond. Crime was much higher everywhere in the 80s and 90s.
mcguire 4y ago
SF's population declined between 1950 and 1980, and it's homicide rate between roughly 1970 and the mid-1990s was up to 2 or 3 times what it is now.

joemazerino 4y ago

Not "all time low" but a 40 year low. Its easy to fuzz numbers when you start extremely high.

mikeryan 4y ago
San Francisco has had a relatively low, and consistent violent crime rate for about 20 years. Conversely it’s also had a consistently higher property crime rate.
mlyle 4y ago
Possibly an all-time low. It's hard to compare numbers >40 years old, because they very possibly are not measuring the same things. As to ease when you "start extremely high" -- SF is now safer, when it comes to violent crime, than most major cities in the US. What it does have is an extremely high rate of quality of life crime.
- bink 4y ago
  As an example: domestic violence was absolutely not treated the same >40 years ago and the odds of it being reported at all were quite a bit lower.
mcguire 4y ago
According to the chart, the current homicide rate is about 7/100,000. I found a spreadsheet showing homicides going back to 1849. The rate between 1968 (happy birthday to me) and 1996 is significantly higher than now, bouncing around between 10 and 20. Between 1920 and 1967, it bounces around between a low of 2 (1938) and 9. The 1870s were another relatively high period. Interestingly, San Francisco's population declined from 775,000 in 1950 to 679,000 in 1980. Sources: Homicide in San Francisco, 1849-2003 (https://cjrc.osu.edu/research/interdisciplinary/hvd/united-states/san-francisco https://cjrc.osu.edu/research/interdisciplinary/hvd/united-s...) Historical population of San Francisco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_San_Francisco) plus some linear interpolation
- 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway292939 4y ago

Sure. However the "lack of safety" perception is real too. If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. But if you're an SF native, you've learned to shrug it off as a commonplace occurrence. You've learned to become thick skinned towards these incidences. And when a real crime has happened, you'd likely assign more gravitas to it. This is why there is a disconnect between numbers and quoted statistics and how people feel.

throwaway292939 4y ago
People who are downvoting this... care to justify your point of view? Genuinely curious.
midoridensha 4y ago
>If a homeless person walks up to you and aggressively threatens you as you are passing by, no crime has occurred. Depending on what they say, isn't that still technically "assault"? Or "disturbing the peace"? Also, if there's poop all over the sidewalks, those are all crimes too. The problem is that all these petty crimes are generally never reported, and certainly not acted upon by police. So they never show up in the crime statistics. There's a disconnect between the numbers and quoted statistics and reality, because the statistics come from the police, and their reporting isn't accurate. It isn't accurate anywhere of course, because police aren't perfect and many crimes go unreported for various reasons, but to SF natives, it may seem that this is worse in SF than other places, or in SF in earlier times.
- throwaway292939 4y ago
  Say it is an assault. Some guy / lady yelled at you for 10 seconds aggressively. Are you now going to call the cops / file a police report? I think a majority of people would just move on with their day. So yes, to your point, this wouldn't show up in any statistics.
  - midoridensha 4y ago

rwalle 4y ago

[flagged]