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Animal Sex Determination Is Weirder Than You Think
- jinpa_zangpo 4y agoReminds me of the poem by Ogden Nash: A funny animal is the flea You cannot tell the he from she But he can tell and so can she
- okokwhatever 4y ago[flagged]
- mach1ne 4y agoRichard Dawkins wrote in the Selfish Gene that across the animal kingdom, females and males can be distinguished by the fact that females always have larger sex cells. (E.g. eggs versus sperm) This could be slightly off-topic since I can’t read the article.
- justinclift 4y agohttps://archive.is/tETrm https://archive.is/tETrm
- belter 4y ago[flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoThen it will still lay eggs just the same.
- jimbokun 4y ago> (Biologists use the word “female” to describe organs or organisms that produce eggs, and “male” for those that produce sperm; animals do not have socially constructed genders.) From early in the article.
- 77pt77 4y agoThis is the usual definition. It's not a conclusion, it's by fiat.
- 867-5309 4y agonow there is a triplet of nouns that can be read in two ways..
- justinclift 4y agohttps://archive.is/tETrm https://archive.is/tETrm
- kleiba 4y agoBiologists use the word “female” to describe organs or organisms that produce eggs, and “male” for those that produce sperm; animals do not have socially constructed genders. Sad times when such disclaimers are necessary.
- mseepgood 4y ago> animals do not have socially constructed genders. How would we know? Are we able to communicate with animals yet?
- krona 4y agoTheir behaviour could be grouped in ways not derived primarily by sex?
- red_trumpet 4y agoThe article links to another one[1], which might be boiled down to > [...] peacocks still do not have genders. And the reason is that peacocks do not have culture. [1] https://nautil.us/no-animals-do-not-have-genders-237938/ https://nautil.us/no-animals-do-not-have-genders-237938/
- rsynnott 4y agoIf you define socially constructed to mean a _human_ sort of society (which is probably how most people will read this, and the most reasonable way to read it), then they don't by definition. I suspect to some extent you could argue this either way for social insects, however; is their 'society' so biologically programmed in that the pseudo-gender identities it _appears_ to create don't count? There are also some primates which have, if not societies, things which look suspiciously like societies, of course. Still, the statement is probably basically true, with a little fuzziness around the edges.
- burnished 4y agoProbably just simple observation - if culture was an element then we would expect to see diverging behaviors in different groups. Wouldnt require communicating.
- giantg2 4y ago"(a system that’s distinct from our diverse gender identities)" Please don't take this the wrong way, this is a genuine question. Is there an explaination somewhere of what purpose gender identities serve and what benefits that provides (ie why don't animals need them)? Aside from reproduction, I don't see how gender would really influence anything.
- capableweb 4y ago> ie why don't animals need them Is there a reason to believe it doesn't exists in animals as well? Homosexuality is common in many species, are some individual animals in those species more prone to homosexual "relationships" than others? If so, maybe those animals are feeling some sort of expression by their gender identity based on their preference. I'm guessing gender identities serve the same purpose as individual expression, just to be self-expressive.
- dahfizz 4y agoI thought gender and sexuality are totally independent?
- sorokod 4y agoDepends on when you had that thought https://www.websters1913.com/words/Gender https://www.websters1913.com/words/Gender
- ThrowawayTestr 4y agoWhat does gender have to do with sexuality have to do with gender?
- paxcoder 4y ago[dead]
- bell-cot 4y agoHuman society. Animals are also “adults” or not without reference to a local legal age of majority or government ID, move across borders without going through Customs, pay no taxes, subscribe to no ideologies or religions, die without death certificates being issued, etc.
- SubiculumCode 4y agoThroughout the history of biology, psychology, cognitive science, and neurosciences, there has been a constant back and forth between those who would exaggerate sex differences, and those who would understate sex-differences as purely social constructs with no affect on biology other than what is caused via experienced socializations. The truth is more complicated than any of those extremes. Important differences in biology exist at every level of description, from molecular pathways to large scale brain morphology, and yet! The differences by sex are often subtle, and heterogenous, and not consistent across species. Nevertheless, while the sex chromosomes have far-reaching effects on development, starting at the very beginning of the neurodevelopmental timeline of cell proliferation and migration, the formation and structure of synapses, and so on, its not the whole story. A too common way people differentiate sex from gender is to say that there is, on the one hand, biological sex, which they’ll add is both real, binary, and unchangeable, and then there is gender, the infinitely mind-bending social construct. This framework is often draped with an aura of scientific impartiality. I want to stress to you that this framework is not scientifically justified. Not at all. Further it is patently harmful and trivialized the very real phenomenon of gender diversity. First, biological sex is not the same thing as chromosomal sex. The sex chromosomes only partially, and only indirectly influence physiological and brain development. Development is fundamentally a multilevel process integrating genetic, epigenetic, environmental, and experiential factors, all of which can lead to qualitative and quantitative differences in the expression of the sex phenotype. Differences in the timing and dosage of steroid exposures within an individual, can lead to any particular feature being more stereotypically masculine, feminine, androgenous, or other phenotype altogether. The result is a mosaic of features with high degree of overlap in those with XX and XY chromosomes. Sometimes this kind of effect pushes someone's actual attributes to be not as typical of their chromosomal sex. These traits in turn will influence the gender identity they feel most in tune with, and how they incorporate and react to the socialization of gender norms.
- SubiculumCode 4y agoFYI, I am a scientist that studies sex and gender in autism.
- 4y ago
- _pigpen__ 4y ago“Animals don’t have socially defined gender.” Perhaps, but they can definitely have have socially defined sex. Clownfish live in hierarchical units. The dominant fish is an aggressive female. When she dies, the next dominant male will change sex and assume the role. If that isn’t social I don’t know what is. (And that’s one example there are at least a dozen species of fish that can change sex due to external factors.)
- pvaldes 4y agoThose fishes are true hermaphrodytes in fact. Its reproductive organs have a part male and a part female. Both perfectly able to produce functional gametes but not at the same time. Not equivalent to trans people case, really.
- howdysam123 4y ago[flagged]
- soundsabout 4y ago>is trans genderism increasingly effecting human politics & economies? ... yes While I think it's an interesting question, I am not sure what this means. I can list plenty of other things that are temporally-localized that are more likely to explain an increase in diversity of sexuality and gender in modern societies, but I am more curious how transgender folks are affecting* economies.
- zug_zug 4y agoAs a woke person, I consider these important questions.
- Karawebnetwork 4y agoOnly a tiny minority of human beings are transgender. Even in cultures where the concept of a third gender is celebrated, it is a rare phenomenon. Canada is the first country to provide census data on transgender and non-binary people: "Of the nearly 30.5 million people in Canada aged 15 and older living in a private household in May 2021, 100,815 were transgender (59,460) or non-binary (41,355), accounting for 0.33% of the population in this age group."
- closetkantian 4y ago"Even in cultures where the concept of a third gender is celebrated, it is a rare phenomenon"... As someone who lived in Thailand for a few years, I'm going to tell you that you are totally wrong.
- Karawebnetwork 4y ago"There are an estimated 314,808 trans people living in Thailand" https://weareaptn.org/ https://weareaptn.org/ Thailand has a total population of 71.6 million.
- karmakaze 4y agoAlthough many species of jellyfish have some capacity to reverse aging and revert to a larval state, most of them lose this ability once they reach sexual maturity. However, Turritopsis dohrnii appears to be the only known species able to repeatedly revert back into a larval stage even after sexual reproduction. If the above could be combined with the weird sex determination, then you could have a single organism that grows as one sex, reverts, then grows as a different sex, repeat.
- firstlink 4y agoAn article about sex selection which has to stop and explain multiple times that biological sex exists and is different than gender just might be written for the wrong audience.
- kennyadam 4y agoIf you don't have those asterisks all over the place Twitter will come for you... and that is apparently something worth worrying about.