4 ms·

Guilt by association makes no sense… would this also apply to eg, communists?

by ekam 3y ago

Entinel 3y ago
Communist don't want to see the eradication of a single race of people so no I don't think it would.
- prottog 3y ago
  What a surprise it is that so many millions have perished under the banner of communism. I suppose as long as everyone dies equally, it's still consistent with the system...
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    That's the justification that works for capitalist imperialism, why not communism as well?
- ch4s3 3y ago
  There was a whole series of ethnic cleanings in the USSR [1], the CCP is currently enacting at least 2 efforts to erradicate non Han minority groups, the Khmer Rouge set about the mass murder of Muslim Cham and Vietnamese in Cambodia, the Ethiopian Derg were accused of similar atrocities. [1] https://www.abc-clio.com/products/c6927c/ https://www.abc-clio.com/products/c6927c/
  - Entinel 3y ago
    I know about the ethnic cleanings. Communism as an ideology does not endorse eugenics through mass murdering people. Nazism as an ideology does.
    - ch4s3 3y ago
      On the contrary, Leninism mandates terror and ethnic minorities are always among the first targets of terror and repression. Stalinism was synonymous with Russian chauvinism, and saw other ethnic groups as inherently counter revolutionary. Chinese communism is also an ideology of Han supremacy. These are all flavors of communism, but Naziism was a particularly German flavor of fascism, so I think the comparison is appropriate. Stalin ran death camps for ethnic minorities, and it was part an parcel with Stalinism.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > These are all flavors of communism, but Naziism was a particularly German flavor of fascism, so I think the comparison is appropriate. So you hit it right there. Neither fascism nor communism necessarily include mass murder. Naziism does.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        I would argue that fascism and communism inevitably lead to mass murder because they tend towards totalitarianism and the use of terror. This comes with the caveat that the terror need not necessarily target an ethnic minority.
        Entinel 3y ago
        This is getting away from the original point. If you associate with a nazi then yes I believe you are guilty by association. There is no coexisting with a belief that doesn't believe you have the right to exist in the first place. If you believe that communism is in the same lane then feel free to throw them in the bin as well.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        My whole point is that historically they are in the same bin, and doubly so for any Leninists and Maoists.
karmakurtisaani 3y ago
You know, the guilt by association kind of makes sense. Nazis have an ideology of violence/hate at their core - by being associated with Nazis, you tend to accept this. Therefore, it's ok to perceive you as one too. I can't say about communists, as there are so few around these days.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > I can't say about communists, as there are so few around these days. I dated one. Her description was basically the "People's Front of Judea" scene in Life of Brian — they're all in their own tiny rabbit holes, completely convinced all the other tiny groups are pawns, puppets, or stooges of capitalism.
macintux 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
micromacrofoot 3y ago
It's guilt by selective association. If you regularly visit /b you know there are a lot of white nationalists there, by continuing to use /b you're choosing to associate with that kind of content.
- jackothy 3y ago
  But the mere association itself does not mean you agree with that kind of content. As an example, would you vilify a scientist studying extremism because he regularly reads Neo-Nazi forums for his research? There are many reasons to read something other than "I am reading this because I love and agree with every aspect of it". In fact, it is probably common knowledge that only ever reading stuff you wholeheartedly agree with is quite a bad idea. Echo chambers, social media "bubbles" and all that. Also, it can be good to build a tougher skin, can't it?
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    Come on, what is this argument? /b/ users aren't doing academic research and you know that. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I'm talking about the average /b/ user here... the site is rife with racism. Are you seriously claiming that people should visit /b/ to avoid echo chambers? Have you been to /b/? I'd argue that it's probably more productive to change your perspective by hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. You're not being freed from your echo chamber by listening to people who support genocide.
    - jackothy 3y ago
      I don't think I have ever been to /b/, and it could very well be a valid claim that most /b/ frequenters are assholes. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule. My comment is meant more as a defense of 4chan as a whole. I have seen valuable information originate from their technology board, for example. I just don't want to see prejudice against any and all 4chan users. Blanket application of "guilt by association", which seems to be advocated in neighboring threads, seems horrible to me. I just hope people will be willing to engage with any other person up to the point that they actively prove to you in person that they are a jackass. Trying to look for signs that the other person is secretly a jackass is not a great approach.

Guilt by association makes no sense… would this also apply to eg, communists?

by ekam 3y ago

Guilt by association makes no sense… would this also apply to eg, communists?

Entinel 3y ago

Communist don't want to see the eradication of a single race of people so no I don't think it would.

prottog 3y ago
What a surprise it is that so many millions have perished under the banner of communism. I suppose as long as everyone dies equally, it's still consistent with the system...
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  That's the justification that works for capitalist imperialism, why not communism as well?
ch4s3 3y ago
There was a whole series of ethnic cleanings in the USSR [1], the CCP is currently enacting at least 2 efforts to erradicate non Han minority groups, the Khmer Rouge set about the mass murder of Muslim Cham and Vietnamese in Cambodia, the Ethiopian Derg were accused of similar atrocities. [1] https://www.abc-clio.com/products/c6927c/ https://www.abc-clio.com/products/c6927c/
- Entinel 3y ago
  I know about the ethnic cleanings. Communism as an ideology does not endorse eugenics through mass murdering people. Nazism as an ideology does.
  - ch4s3 3y ago
    On the contrary, Leninism mandates terror and ethnic minorities are always among the first targets of terror and repression. Stalinism was synonymous with Russian chauvinism, and saw other ethnic groups as inherently counter revolutionary. Chinese communism is also an ideology of Han supremacy. These are all flavors of communism, but Naziism was a particularly German flavor of fascism, so I think the comparison is appropriate. Stalin ran death camps for ethnic minorities, and it was part an parcel with Stalinism.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > These are all flavors of communism, but Naziism was a particularly German flavor of fascism, so I think the comparison is appropriate. So you hit it right there. Neither fascism nor communism necessarily include mass murder. Naziism does.
      - ch4s3 3y ago
        I would argue that fascism and communism inevitably lead to mass murder because they tend towards totalitarianism and the use of terror. This comes with the caveat that the terror need not necessarily target an ethnic minority.
        Entinel 3y ago
        This is getting away from the original point. If you associate with a nazi then yes I believe you are guilty by association. There is no coexisting with a belief that doesn't believe you have the right to exist in the first place. If you believe that communism is in the same lane then feel free to throw them in the bin as well.
        ch4s3 3y ago
        My whole point is that historically they are in the same bin, and doubly so for any Leninists and Maoists.

karmakurtisaani 3y ago

You know, the guilt by association kind of makes sense. Nazis have an ideology of violence/hate at their core - by being associated with Nazis, you tend to accept this. Therefore, it's ok to perceive you as one too. I can't say about communists, as there are so few around these days.

ben_w 3y ago
> I can't say about communists, as there are so few around these days. I dated one. Her description was basically the "People's Front of Judea" scene in Life of Brian — they're all in their own tiny rabbit holes, completely convinced all the other tiny groups are pawns, puppets, or stooges of capitalism.

macintux 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

micromacrofoot 3y ago

It's guilt by selective association. If you regularly visit /b you know there are a lot of white nationalists there, by continuing to use /b you're choosing to associate with that kind of content.

jackothy 3y ago
But the mere association itself does not mean you agree with that kind of content. As an example, would you vilify a scientist studying extremism because he regularly reads Neo-Nazi forums for his research? There are many reasons to read something other than "I am reading this because I love and agree with every aspect of it". In fact, it is probably common knowledge that only ever reading stuff you wholeheartedly agree with is quite a bad idea. Echo chambers, social media "bubbles" and all that. Also, it can be good to build a tougher skin, can't it?
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  Come on, what is this argument? /b/ users aren't doing academic research and you know that. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but I'm talking about the average /b/ user here... the site is rife with racism. Are you seriously claiming that people should visit /b/ to avoid echo chambers? Have you been to /b/? I'd argue that it's probably more productive to change your perspective by hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. You're not being freed from your echo chamber by listening to people who support genocide.
  - jackothy 3y ago
    I don't think I have ever been to /b/, and it could very well be a valid claim that most /b/ frequenters are assholes. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule. My comment is meant more as a defense of 4chan as a whole. I have seen valuable information originate from their technology board, for example. I just don't want to see prejudice against any and all 4chan users. Blanket application of "guilt by association", which seems to be advocated in neighboring threads, seems horrible to me. I just hope people will be willing to engage with any other person up to the point that they actively prove to you in person that they are a jackass. Trying to look for signs that the other person is secretly a jackass is not a great approach.