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> Seems like you are projecting a bit. I'm not sure she'd agree that she also doesn't belong. So, the fact that you do doesn't really mean she should take perso

by least 3y ago

> Seems like you are projecting a bit. I'm not sure she'd agree that she also doesn't belong. So, the fact that you do doesn't really mean she should take personal blame for it. That's pretty ridiculous if you think about it. On the contrary, I'm quite convinced she did think she belonged, which is the problem. She was incapable of understanding the situation, John didn't care, and the other Beatles refused to confront John or Yoko about it despite it being quite clearly obtrusive. > Her partner asked her to be there for him... No one else expressed anything otherwise, because they knew how John would react. I'm not denying that it's a failure on multiple people's parts, but you're just pretending like Yoko doesn't share any of that responsibility herself. > Big coming from you with this kind of posting. Yawn. As opposed to your kind of posting that's infantilizing grown women on top of your inability to empathize. Yawn indeed.

freejazz 3y ago
Not sure how you could say John didn't care when he clearly did. >I'm not denying that it's a failure on multiple people's parts, but you're just pretending like Yoko doesn't share any of that responsibility herself. Because I wouldn't blame my bandmate's gf for showing up when he asked her to... They have to sleep together every night, it's understandable she's trying to do the right thing by him, even if it's not what I want. Further to that point, if she did show up, I wouldn't be angry at her, because my issue would be with my bandmate. You seem incredibly emotionally undeveloped tbh. >As opposed to your kind of posting that's infantilizing grown women on top of your inability to empathize. Yawn indeed. There's something wrong with you that you immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm infantilizing her. A much more reasonable explanation is that I don't think she did anything wrong by doing what John asked her to do. You really got something going on and I don't want to be a part of it. Yoko haters are always like this.
- least 3y ago
  > Not sure how you could say John didn't care when he clearly did. John didn't care what other people thought about her being there because he was as self absorbed as she is. > Because I wouldn't blame my bandmate's gf for showing up when he asked her to... I wouldn't blame her for showing up, but I would blame her for continuing to sit in the room when it's quite clear that she wasn't welcome. Somehow the girlfriends of the other band members were able to figure this out. Either Yoko is dense or she just didn't care. the NY Times article paints it as if she knew exactly what she was doing and that it was somehow some sort of heroic effort.
  - freejazz 3y ago
    It’s totally the opposite. John absolutely did care what the others thought, that’s exactly why he brought her there. He knew it would bother them, and that’s exactly what he intended and cared to do. He wasn’t unconcerned whether they would feel one way or another. He was entirely aware he was pushing boundaries, and he was doing it to see where he stood with the other band members, and how bad they wanted/needed him. Once again, I think your perspective reflects a lack of emotional development w/r/t how you imagine Yoko and John i.e. that they are simply just self-obsessed and oblivious to anything besides their own desires. It’s clearly the opposite, John knew exactly what he was doing, and why he was doing it and the risks it brought. Your other point also reflects emotional immaturity. If my bandmate brought his gf to practice, I wouldn’t sit there and seethe at her (and it’s funny you describe it this way when the obvious takeaway from get back is how much her being there was a non-issue despite the visual and conceptual absurdity of her sitting there reading a book about the Beatles), I would bring it up with my bandmate. Like I pointed out before, and in Yoko’s case, she’s trying to do the right thing by her life partner, her lover, her husband, future father of her children, someone she was deeply into a heroin addiction with, which to her, supersedes anything she would owe to Paul or any other Beatle. It's pretty absurd for you to have suggested I was the one taking away her agency or infantilizing her, while you reject basic human emotions. You act like John passively asked her "Hey, wanna come to band practice?" wherein what he actually did was tell her that he needed her there in order to actually do it in the first place. This is all post-white album. That’s why you seem especially emotionally immature, if not outright just selfish. You (a) project it onto Yoko and John in order to eschew any other reasonable explanation, and (b) think that your bandmate’s partner owes you more than she owes your bandmate and that to do otherwise would just reflect not caring or being “dense”. I’d like to think you’d be a better partner to a potential better half of yours, but hey, clearly you don’t care! I hope they don’t either!
    - least 3y ago
      > It’s totally the opposite. John absolutely did care what the others thought, that’s exactly why he brought her there. He knew it would bother them, and that’s exactly what he intended and cared to do. He wasn’t unconcerned whether they would feel one way or another. He was entirely aware he was pushing boundaries, and he was doing it to see where he stood with the other band members, and how bad they wanted/needed him. Once again, I think your perspective reflects a lack of emotional development w/r/t how you imagine Yoko and John i.e. that they are simply just self-obsessed and oblivious to anything besides their own desires. It’s clearly the opposite, John knew exactly what he was doing, and why he was doing it and the risks it brought. I find it remarkable that you wrote all this out and didn't once think that this is remarkably selfish, self serving, and narcissistic. Most people would condemn this type of behavior, but you're trying to elevate it into something greater than what it is. Stop proselytizing. > think that your bandmate’s partner owes you more than she owes your bandmate and that to do otherwise would just reflect not caring or being “dense”. I’d like to think you’d be a better partner to a potential better half of yours, but hey, clearly you don’t care! I hope they don’t either! I think that there's a time and place for things. If you're in a space to write music with your band then you defer to what is good for the band. If I'm visiting their home, that's a completely different story and I defer to what they want, because that's their space. Yoko has done this a lot throughout her career. She's injected herself in places that she clearly wasn't welcome and made it about her. Perhaps she is making an artistic statement but it hardly matters, because in doing so she's disrupting everyone else who in some cases often are trying to make their own art.

by least 3y ago

freejazz 3y ago

Not sure how you could say John didn't care when he clearly did. >I'm not denying that it's a failure on multiple people's parts, but you're just pretending like Yoko doesn't share any of that responsibility herself. Because I wouldn't blame my bandmate's gf for showing up when he asked her to... They have to sleep together every night, it's understandable she's trying to do the right thing by him, even if it's not what I want. Further to that point, if she did show up, I wouldn't be angry at her, because my issue would be with my bandmate. You seem incredibly emotionally undeveloped tbh. >As opposed to your kind of posting that's infantilizing grown women on top of your inability to empathize. Yawn indeed. There's something wrong with you that you immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm infantilizing her. A much more reasonable explanation is that I don't think she did anything wrong by doing what John asked her to do. You really got something going on and I don't want to be a part of it. Yoko haters are always like this.

least 3y ago
> Not sure how you could say John didn't care when he clearly did. John didn't care what other people thought about her being there because he was as self absorbed as she is. > Because I wouldn't blame my bandmate's gf for showing up when he asked her to... I wouldn't blame her for showing up, but I would blame her for continuing to sit in the room when it's quite clear that she wasn't welcome. Somehow the girlfriends of the other band members were able to figure this out. Either Yoko is dense or she just didn't care. the NY Times article paints it as if she knew exactly what she was doing and that it was somehow some sort of heroic effort.
- freejazz 3y ago
  It’s totally the opposite. John absolutely did care what the others thought, that’s exactly why he brought her there. He knew it would bother them, and that’s exactly what he intended and cared to do. He wasn’t unconcerned whether they would feel one way or another. He was entirely aware he was pushing boundaries, and he was doing it to see where he stood with the other band members, and how bad they wanted/needed him. Once again, I think your perspective reflects a lack of emotional development w/r/t how you imagine Yoko and John i.e. that they are simply just self-obsessed and oblivious to anything besides their own desires. It’s clearly the opposite, John knew exactly what he was doing, and why he was doing it and the risks it brought. Your other point also reflects emotional immaturity. If my bandmate brought his gf to practice, I wouldn’t sit there and seethe at her (and it’s funny you describe it this way when the obvious takeaway from get back is how much her being there was a non-issue despite the visual and conceptual absurdity of her sitting there reading a book about the Beatles), I would bring it up with my bandmate. Like I pointed out before, and in Yoko’s case, she’s trying to do the right thing by her life partner, her lover, her husband, future father of her children, someone she was deeply into a heroin addiction with, which to her, supersedes anything she would owe to Paul or any other Beatle. It's pretty absurd for you to have suggested I was the one taking away her agency or infantilizing her, while you reject basic human emotions. You act like John passively asked her "Hey, wanna come to band practice?" wherein what he actually did was tell her that he needed her there in order to actually do it in the first place. This is all post-white album. That’s why you seem especially emotionally immature, if not outright just selfish. You (a) project it onto Yoko and John in order to eschew any other reasonable explanation, and (b) think that your bandmate’s partner owes you more than she owes your bandmate and that to do otherwise would just reflect not caring or being “dense”. I’d like to think you’d be a better partner to a potential better half of yours, but hey, clearly you don’t care! I hope they don’t either!
  - least 3y ago
    > It’s totally the opposite. John absolutely did care what the others thought, that’s exactly why he brought her there. He knew it would bother them, and that’s exactly what he intended and cared to do. He wasn’t unconcerned whether they would feel one way or another. He was entirely aware he was pushing boundaries, and he was doing it to see where he stood with the other band members, and how bad they wanted/needed him. Once again, I think your perspective reflects a lack of emotional development w/r/t how you imagine Yoko and John i.e. that they are simply just self-obsessed and oblivious to anything besides their own desires. It’s clearly the opposite, John knew exactly what he was doing, and why he was doing it and the risks it brought. I find it remarkable that you wrote all this out and didn't once think that this is remarkably selfish, self serving, and narcissistic. Most people would condemn this type of behavior, but you're trying to elevate it into something greater than what it is. Stop proselytizing. > think that your bandmate’s partner owes you more than she owes your bandmate and that to do otherwise would just reflect not caring or being “dense”. I’d like to think you’d be a better partner to a potential better half of yours, but hey, clearly you don’t care! I hope they don’t either! I think that there's a time and place for things. If you're in a space to write music with your band then you defer to what is good for the band. If I'm visiting their home, that's a completely different story and I defer to what they want, because that's their space. Yoko has done this a lot throughout her career. She's injected herself in places that she clearly wasn't welcome and made it about her. Perhaps she is making an artistic statement but it hardly matters, because in doing so she's disrupting everyone else who in some cases often are trying to make their own art.