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But it does directly say that. You just need to read for 30 seconds instead of 5. The 1st paragraph tells you the features of the app and paragraphs 3-6 tell y

by slg 4y ago

But it does directly say that. You just need to read for 30 seconds instead of 5. The 1st paragraph tells you the features of the app and paragraphs 3-6 tell you the motivation behind the app and the primary use case. That is a pretty good structure for this type of web page.

mbesto 4y ago
> That is a pretty good structure for this type of web page. Not really. Honestly, it was kind of confusing to me too... All they had to say was "Apple makes it impossible to avoid playing a screen or animated screen saver during a podcast or listening to music. So, this app lets you listen to a podcast or music over a blank screen. That's it. That's all it is. It's a feature that AppleTV should have, but doesn't, so I made this app for it." Literally don't have to write anything more than that.
- slg 4y ago
  Maybe the context of this appearing on HN is shifting the perception of this page, but this is posted on an individual's blog. If the author had the mindset of "literally don't have to write anything more than that", then they wouldn't have been blogging for seemingly 15 years. This page is very far from the worst offenders when it comes to this sort of thing. The features are outlined in the first paragraph. You truly can't get better than that. Odds are people who will want this app will immediately identify why those features are useful. For the people who don't immediately see the use, you only have to read a few more short paragraphs.
  - mbesto 4y ago
    > Maybe the context of this appearing on HN is shifting the perception of this page, but this is posted on an individual's blog. If the author had the mindset of "literally don't have to write anything more than that", then they wouldn't have been blogging for seemingly 15 years. 100% agree. But the OP is the highest rated comment, so clearly HN thinks this is important.
    - slg 4y ago
      HN has a long history of being completely wrongheaded and dismissive in the top comment when something like this is shared. It is the old it is trivially easily to replicate Dropbox with FTP and curl situation.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > you only have to read a few more short paragraphs Which, while not hard, is fair to classify as confusing design.
neogodless 4y ago
It says this: > A big ass screen in the living room makes this hard to achieve. If you want to listen to music or a podcast before going to bed, it’s impossible to avoid a bright now playing screen or animated screen saver. I found that super confusing - why are you using the TV to listen to music or a podcast? Can't you use a different device? It still wasn't clear why you needed the TV on but blank after reading that. Why not grab headphones or use a bluetooth speaker? Why use the TV, which probably has terrible built-in speakers? Given the explanations that some people want to use their Smart TV specifically for music/podcasts, it does make sense. But I would lead with that - not beat around the bush.
- slg 4y ago
  The page clearly outlines the need for the app, listening to audio in the dark. The app isn't the only way to satisfy that need. If you have some alternative way to address that need which you think is better, then maybe the app isn't for you.
  - neogodless 4y ago
    We're not discussing whether the app is for me. We're discussing whether the information was presented in a good way for determining whether the app was good for me, and my opinion is that it was not. Even if the app was for me, I could've determined that much more readily if the author led with the problem "wanting audio from a smart TV with the screen off." Paragraph 6 is not the optimal location for a description of the problem being solved.
    - slg 4y ago
      >why are you using the TV to listen to music or a podcast? Can't you use a different device? It still wasn't clear why you needed the TV on but blank after reading that. Why not grab headphones or use a bluetooth speaker? Why use the TV, which probably has terrible built-in speakers? That was from your original comment. You seem to be wanting to discuss the effectiveness of the app rather than the information presented. As I said in the other reply, people with this need will immediately understand the use case. The people here being confused about why anyone would want this app are confused because they aren't familiar with this need in which case they aren't the audience for this app anyway.
pempem 4y ago
The suggestion of OP is that 30seconds is too long. I have to agree. Thats why every single industry has their own term for "above the fold". It is easy to understand. It could crucially be easier to understand, reaching more people, if it was faster to explain itself.
ok_dad 4y ago
You don't even need to read for 30 seconds, the very first image has text in it that explains what the app does, and the sentence after it, still in the opening section, explains that you should read the text of the image to learn what the app does. Literally, the people complaining about not wanting to read too much must have the attention spans of gnats.

by slg 4y ago

mbesto 4y ago

> That is a pretty good structure for this type of web page. Not really. Honestly, it was kind of confusing to me too... All they had to say was "Apple makes it impossible to avoid playing a screen or animated screen saver during a podcast or listening to music. So, this app lets you listen to a podcast or music over a blank screen. That's it. That's all it is. It's a feature that AppleTV should have, but doesn't, so I made this app for it." Literally don't have to write anything more than that.

slg 4y ago
Maybe the context of this appearing on HN is shifting the perception of this page, but this is posted on an individual's blog. If the author had the mindset of "literally don't have to write anything more than that", then they wouldn't have been blogging for seemingly 15 years. This page is very far from the worst offenders when it comes to this sort of thing. The features are outlined in the first paragraph. You truly can't get better than that. Odds are people who will want this app will immediately identify why those features are useful. For the people who don't immediately see the use, you only have to read a few more short paragraphs.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > Maybe the context of this appearing on HN is shifting the perception of this page, but this is posted on an individual's blog. If the author had the mindset of "literally don't have to write anything more than that", then they wouldn't have been blogging for seemingly 15 years. 100% agree. But the OP is the highest rated comment, so clearly HN thinks this is important.
  - slg 4y ago
    HN has a long history of being completely wrongheaded and dismissive in the top comment when something like this is shared. It is the old it is trivially easily to replicate Dropbox with FTP and curl situation.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > you only have to read a few more short paragraphs Which, while not hard, is fair to classify as confusing design.

neogodless 4y ago

It says this: > A big ass screen in the living room makes this hard to achieve. If you want to listen to music or a podcast before going to bed, it’s impossible to avoid a bright now playing screen or animated screen saver. I found that super confusing - why are you using the TV to listen to music or a podcast? Can't you use a different device? It still wasn't clear why you needed the TV on but blank after reading that. Why not grab headphones or use a bluetooth speaker? Why use the TV, which probably has terrible built-in speakers? Given the explanations that some people want to use their Smart TV specifically for music/podcasts, it does make sense. But I would lead with that - not beat around the bush.

slg 4y ago
The page clearly outlines the need for the app, listening to audio in the dark. The app isn't the only way to satisfy that need. If you have some alternative way to address that need which you think is better, then maybe the app isn't for you.
- neogodless 4y ago
  We're not discussing whether the app is for me. We're discussing whether the information was presented in a good way for determining whether the app was good for me, and my opinion is that it was not. Even if the app was for me, I could've determined that much more readily if the author led with the problem "wanting audio from a smart TV with the screen off." Paragraph 6 is not the optimal location for a description of the problem being solved.
  - slg 4y ago
    >why are you using the TV to listen to music or a podcast? Can't you use a different device? It still wasn't clear why you needed the TV on but blank after reading that. Why not grab headphones or use a bluetooth speaker? Why use the TV, which probably has terrible built-in speakers? That was from your original comment. You seem to be wanting to discuss the effectiveness of the app rather than the information presented. As I said in the other reply, people with this need will immediately understand the use case. The people here being confused about why anyone would want this app are confused because they aren't familiar with this need in which case they aren't the audience for this app anyway.

pempem 4y ago

The suggestion of OP is that 30seconds is too long. I have to agree. Thats why every single industry has their own term for "above the fold". It is easy to understand. It could crucially be easier to understand, reaching more people, if it was faster to explain itself.

ok_dad 4y ago

You don't even need to read for 30 seconds, the very first image has text in it that explains what the app does, and the sentence after it, still in the opening section, explains that you should read the text of the image to learn what the app does. Literally, the people complaining about not wanting to read too much must have the attention spans of gnats.