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Udacity to offer entire CS curriculum, certifications to obtain a degree online
- Vivtek 15y agoCertifications for free? I mean, that's certainly what it sounds like. Talk about disruption!
- johnohara 15y agoIf the course and course content is free, then certification has to be fee based. The model doesn't work otherwise. Professors Thrun and Evans have never said certification will be free. MITx has stated that their certification exams will be fee based. Think ACT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, LSAT, etc. The certification exam for the course IS the brand. Passing a difficult, no-nonsense, comprehensive exam is certainly suitable for a CV.
- waterlesscloud 15y agoThere's nothing that says the certification will be free...
- swalsh 15y agoIt doesn't have to be free... it just has to cost less than 20k a year to be disruptive. This has the potential to be very disruptive. One of the things that excites me the most is not only the potential to eliminate the massive load of debt that your average graduate inherits when they're finished with college, but it also lowers the barrier of entry to classes. So a person who already has graduated can study a cross-discipline a lot easier. I think the amount of people have an expertise in very different areas is going to increase. A lot of potential opens up if/when that becomes a trend.
- leak 15y agoState universities if you're a resident of the state don't cost $20k/yr. Mine cost me $4k/yr.
- geogra4 15y agoWhich state are you in? Even the cheapest state schools here in PA are closer to 4k/semester. http://www.sru.edu/financeandadministrativeaffairs/studentaccounts/tuition/Pages/UndergradIn-StateFees.aspx http://www.sru.edu/financeandadministrativeaffairs/studentac...
- leak 15y agoCalifornia. Attended California State Universities. They have gone up a bit since I graduated about 7 years ago but not that much. Average for all CSU's - $5,285 Link: http://www.calstate.edu/budget/fybudget/2011-2012/documentation/14-mandatory-fees-table.shtml http://www.calstate.edu/budget/fybudget/2011-2012/documentat... Link 2: http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/ http://www.calstate.edu/sas/costofattendance/
- phaus 15y agoBelieve it or not PA has one of the highest rates for in-state tuition. The per credit hour rate for my post 9/11 G.I. bill is based on the highest in-state tuition for a state school. Last time I checked the per credit hour rate for PA was about $900 while in California it was around $300. If I didn't already know better I probably would have guessed that it was the other way around.
- learc83 15y agoWhen I went to Georgia State (started in 2002) it cost about $4k/yr (not that I paid any of that, I made about $6k a year after tuition and fees from scholarships). Now that my little brother is going there, it costs him about $10k a year in tuition and fees.
- Vivtek 15y agoI would swear that it did when I read it...
- IvoDankolov 15y agoI've received one of these emails as well. Almost makes you wonder how much would offline university degrees be worth in a few years. Objectively, this is not a new idea. We have been talking about revolutionizing education for years - and free online education is pretty much the ideal. There is even enough material about most scientific fields and areas of study (some are more open than others, though) to become an expert. So what is the problem? Becoming an expert with enough authority for people to actually listen to you. Easy enough to do it on your own in programming or entrepreneurship you might say. Not so easy in medicine or biochemistry (though I will admit I have no first-hand experience). In that regard, certifications are a significant next step, provided that they get wide enough acknowledgement. That is the next battlefront, I think - convincing industries, governments and academia that online education is the way to go.
- cal5k 15y agoPart of the problem right now is that online education has such a bad rap - for example, The University of Phoenix is widely recognized as a degree mill. It remains to be seen whether companies/institutions (like Udacity) can get the certification part good enough that it will be worth something.
- jeffreymcmanus 15y agoUoP's bad rep comes not because they're a degree mill but because they have a high dropout rate (which is sort of the opposite problem -- if they were a degree mill their dropout rate would be low). Their problem is really that they spent many years recruiting unqualified students who used financial aid to attend, telling them things like "it's no problem to take on $100,000 in debt, with a degree you'll easily be able to get a job that pays $100K." Then the student drops out after four semesters and defaults on their loans, leaving the taxpayer holding the bag.
- splatterdash 15y agoI think this will highlight differences among fields of education (?). Programming is a very pragmatic field. Your ability to code is at its core judged by whether you can program something that works. Don't have a formal education? Whip up several interesting programs / websites on your own, and less people will care about your degree. In addition to that, it's becoming increasingly easy to learn the subject on your own. Not many other fields are like that. Medicine for example. Sure, you can learn the names of the bones in your body, understand the use cases of different drugs in the market, but can you diagnose a patient? To learn that, you need access to training in real hospitals which are only given to students enrolled offline. Same thing with biochemistry (needs access to labs and direct mentorship), law (access to courtrooms? or certification from proper boards). Many of these other disciplines are based on initial trust. It takes time for a biochemist or a lawyer until their work results in something. Having an actual (offline) degree places some kind of 'proxy' for the work result, until they actually appear. I'm not that certain that they can be replaced / revolutionized by online classes. I'm all for revolutionizing education, but I don't think this new approach is able to revolutionize all fields of education.
- WildUtah 15y agoDoes anyone have a pointer to ow this company pans to deal with the Blackboard patents? A few years ago Blackboard patented various aspects of online classroom applications. They offer a free license to not-for-profit projects but it's unclear Udacity intends to remain entirely not-for-profit.
- tylermenezes 15y agoFrom what I understand Blackboard lost almost every legal case they filed with those patents, so as long as they have enough money to get through a lawsuit, they should be fine.
- hack_edu 15y agoHowever, they still sue everyone they possibly can in order to still lock down their market. For a few years now, the barrier for hasn't been the patents but for the cost of standing up to them in court.
- simonbrown 15y agoIsn't that illegal (IANAL)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation
- shimon 15y agoTheoretically this is illegal. In practice, it's hard to draw a sharp line between "plaintiff actually feels his patent should apply here" and "plaintiff doesn't honestly believe his patent applies, but is using the courts as an anticompetitive measure". The US patent litigation process is a horrendously bloated system that favors lawyers and companies with deep pockets, and makes it possible for a sufficiently rich and motivated company to bankrupt an upstart competitor.
- tocomment 15y agoWe are going to have a great 2030's when all these patents expire...
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- RuchitGarg 15y agoAlso, checkout http://www.9slides.com http://www.9slides.com, which is not an university experiment.
- dhawalhs 15y agoList of courses Udacity (www.udacity.com) is expected to offer in 2012: 1. Theory Of Computation 2. Operating Systems 3. Computer Networks 4. Distributed Systems 5. Computer Security 6. Algorithms And Data Structures 7. Software Engineering Practices 8. Building Web Applications Courses that have been confirmed and starting on 20th Feb: 1. CS 101: Building a Search Engine 2. CS 373: Programming a Robotic Car
- tyrelb 15y agoIt would be awesome if they could compare (or map) this course list to what would be typically taught by a University-level Computer Science program... I'm not interested in earning a degree/certification, rather I'd want to take these courses for general interest only. I'm interested in understanding the depth and breadth of each course, vs. just going off the heading. If I can understand the value of each Udacity course as compared to the standard (eg: another University's program), I'm more likely to commit / buy into the whole Udacity approach. i.e. "At Stanford, a typical 4/5-year degree has these X topics / competencies... and these 8 coures meet 50% of these competencies." Without understanding the value of each course as it relates to, say, another University program or competency map, I have a hard time understanding the value of Udacity. This probably sounds confusing, so if there's anyone from Udacity that wants to chat I'm more than open to. I think what Udacity is trying to achieve is great.
- ams6110 15y agoThose course titles do sound very typical for an undergrad CS program, if a bit heavy on the practical subjects.
- folktheory 15y agoAs someone who already has a bachelors in CS, I'm still looking forward to fill in some gaps in my education with these. For example, I never took a Theory of Computation class.
- rgbrgb 15y agoI really wish they had chosen a name for their university that was not so Web 2.0. It makes it unclear to me whether this is a startup or an educational institution.
- DrCatbox 15y agoYes, the name is very important, just look at the name google, that doesnt sound so Web 2.0 at all, I mean, who can even pronounce that?
- burgerbrain 15y agoWell Google is not a school, is it?
- bo1024 15y agoIt's both. Did you check out their website? Looks like a classic startup. > We are a rapidly growing company located in Palo Alto, California looking for great people to join our team. We're looking for a wide variety of backgrounds - the only thing in common is a passion for improving education.
- tybris 15y agoThis sounds bold, but I think the success of Khan academy is simply due the fact that Sal Khan is a brilliant man, and so is Sebastian Thrun. The best teachers provide the best teaching experience, and the Internet allows everyone to have this experience.
- pjscott 15y agoThe internet also allows everyone to avoid the crappy teachers, which is hugely valuable.
- danielharan 15y agoIs it far fetched to think of traditional universities meeting the same fate as Blockbuster? How far can this go?
- jmonegro 15y agoI'd say traditional universities will most likely move to similar platforms rather than just going extinct. This is because Universities provide more value than just the classes, like research.
- tikhonj 15y agoIt is. A university offers a lot more than just classes--one of the primary functions is just to bring together lots of smart people. Being able to talk to both other students and professors face to face is important; and having plenty of other like-minded students around is great for more than just classes. On top of this, universities also offer research. Being able to work on something exciting while you're there is important. And research benefits both from having a high concentration of smart people and having the appropriate facilities. (It also sometimes benefits from having a university full of guinea pigs :).) Also, while most CS classes are easy to move online, this does not hold for other technical subjects which need equipment and labs. An online-only EE or Bio or Physics class cannot reproduce the hands-on experience which is very important to understanding the material well.
- lightcatcher 15y agoI think its important to distinguish that a lot of EE, biology, or physics classes could moved into an online format because not all of these classes are labs. The demos would be easy to replicate just as part of the videos of the lectures.
- ashconnor 15y agoHow will they combat cheating? I mean if it's all done remotely then what is stopping somebody completing the degree for somebody else?
- learc83 15y agoThere are plenty of online schools already. They usually either have you take tests at a local third party testing center, or they watch you through your webcam while you take tests. Additionally there's plenty of cheating going on in traditional universities. I've even heard of people being paid to take entire classes for other people.
- ams6110 15y agoAgreed. If you're going to cheat, you'll cheat. It might even be easier to detect, e.g. enrollment and registration coming from one IP, but all coursework submissions happening from another. Or other more subtle detection mechanisms could be developed I'm sure.
- derektc 15y agoTaking the big tests at third party testing centers should be the way to go. However, I would like to point out that an university does not merely comprise of lectures. The research projects, internships and even the interaction with peers cannot be recreated online. Traditional universities still have an edge over this.
- learc83 15y agoIf enrollment was high enough, local meetups for some classes would go a long way towards solving this problem. What I would like to see eventually happen is for learning and credentialing to separate. I'd like to see a university that was more freeform. What if instead of just offering 4 year degrees, you could take a 6 month AI program, or a 3 month probability and stats course.
- Jach 15y agoI imagine your concern is "how can an employer know this cert means anything?" The short answer is they can't, employers should stop filtering on presence of degree/cert/buzzword. For the jobs where certain certs might matter in a legal sense (certain areas of civics engineering I'm sure) I would hope they vet candidates above and beyond presence of the cert and knowledge of the most basic facts. In practice, the result of cheating for a degree is the same as lying on a job application or resume. When the person gets hired for a job in that field their performance will make that job short-lived (if they're genuinely bad). Similar for putting a school and degree they didn't go to on their resume just to get hired. If they really don't know the material, their performance will show and worst-case the company lost six months of time they could have spent taking someone else through the hiring process. (Ed: okay, worst case is that the person's incompetence causes them to blow up the Earth on the first task they're given.) If they do know the material, and their job performance is good, do you really care that they cheated for the degree or lied about having gotten it? (Okay, it pegs their honesty level quite a bit and you should definitely start bolting things to the floor, but if they do the work well they're still a valuable bee and you can keep them on while looking for someone else if it's morally offensive enough to you.)
- keiferski 15y agoA good portion of a degree's value is in its branding/prestige value. It's not just about the knowledge, it's about the overall reputation of an educational institution. The material at Penn State is 99% the same as MIT's. If this weren't the case, MIT and Stanford would have lost their luster to public schools decades ago. Unfortunately I don't see a degree from a website named "Udacity" garnering anywhere near the level of respect that a traditional university has. Step 1 to bringing down the university system: pick a decent name.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- DanBC 15y ago> Unfortunately I don't see a degree from a website named "Udacity" garnering anywhere near the level of respect that a traditional university has. Step 1 to bringing down the university system: pick a decent name. A good point, but what about the alphabet soup of various certifications and standards bodies?
- noahc 15y agoUdacity isn't a brand yet. Someday something like it or it will be. Then it won't matter. I respect people who are resourceful and get stuff done. If you choose to go to college and wait out the great recession, I'll look down on you no matter if you went to MIT or Stanford. If you went to college for business or technology and you didn't produce anything during your time at college, you'll have a hard time convincing me to hire you. It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world catches up to my way of thinking.
- TruthElixirX 15y agoThat sounds like an awful way of thinking.
- noahc 15y agoWhy is that? You're not adding much to this conversation just by saying "That's an awful way of thinking." Why is it so awful that I realize that technology and business can be learned much faster, much cheaper, and more indepth by actually doing them than going to school for them? Why is it so awful that I value someone figuring out a better way to spend a recession than in school learning something that may or may not help them and for most of them puts in solidly in debt with few options after graduation.
- itmag 15y agoAs someone who is extremely interested in getting started in the e-learning space, what are some ways to offer credentials to people via your e-learning company? I imagine there is a host of options, ranging from formal university credits (which would require teaming up with some educational institution) to just an email saying "congrats, you done it bro". I'd imagine the interesting options lie somewhere in the middle?
- gatlin 15y agoI've said this elsewhere. Good lectures, even good exams, must be matched with good projects and discussions with peers (refereed by a deeply knowledgeable teacher). I wonder if a cottage industry of local study groups will form around these lecture sources. Perhaps Udacity could even spearhead the creation of these and offer some kind of certification to vouch for the local teacher. Then you have the best of both worlds: an internally consistent curriculum with good lectures and digested information paired with one-on-one instruction and project development / discussion which will serve individual students in their own unique ways.
- mwmnj 15y agowould be great to start seeing "Udacity meetups" or something
- gatlin 15y agoI think community based schools will start cropping up. They'll align with some subset of online course material and there might be a local teacher to help coordinate but otherwise, it's the students themselves helping each other. The local tangible presence would not only allow for that interaction / project based element I'm so fond of, but also to help pool resources for equipment. If we're going into this brave new world of private, decentralized education we may as well do it in such a fashion that your own financial status doesn't prevent you from participating.
- Homunculiheaded 15y agoI know of a grad CS course that is essentially doing this. Students watch the lectures and help each other out, then supplement the course by presenting papers and aiming to have project ready for publication by the end of the semester. It's a small course consisting of grad students and upper division undergrads. It will be an interesting experiment. But I think this is a great model, in my experience state schools tend to have pockets of really bright students that can easily out preform the quality of the teachers (certainly not always the case). There are huge opportunities to improve public higher education in the US
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- ilaksh 15y agoHow do they make money if the courses are free?
- magoghm 15y agoMy 16 year old son took the online Introduction to AI class and liked it very much. I told him that Udacity plans to offer an entire online CS curriculum & certification, and he's now very interested in evaluating if he wants to get an Udacity degree instead of going to a more traditional university. I guess I will have to do some serious thinking before I decide if I should encourage him to get an Udacity education or a more traditional education.
- thomaslangston 15y agoI'd encourage him to get both. At least in the short term an Udacity education is going to be considered the same as self-taught. A traditional education however is going to open up other opportunities that the self-taught cannot easily obtain. As long as Udacity is free however, there's no reason to not pack in some extra classes if he has the time.
- magoghm 15y agoI have a traditional education, BS in CS & EE, and it seems to me that it never has been relevant in my professional life. I'm not talking about what I learned in college, that part has been useful. I'm talking about the certification aspect. I finished college 29 years ago, and in all that time I've never had the issue of showing some kind of certificate come up when being offered a job. Maybe I'm an exception and I'm underestimating the certification aspect, but what I'm more concerned about right now is that he wouldn't experience meeting many different kinds of people if he stays at home to study instead of going to some campus, and that doesn't feel right to me. I'm also concerned about how complete is the curriculum at Udacity going to be. I'm sure all the CS classes are going to be pretty good, but what about other subjects like math & physics? I wonder what they are going to do about that and who's going to teach them.
- jacalata 15y agoAs someone who moved to the US for work, one important benefit of 'the certification aspect' is that it'll open up travel opportunities he'd otherwise struggle with: most work visas require a degree, sometimes 'or equivalent experience' but that's harder to demonstrate. If he actually wants to immigrate somewhere the degree may also provide points for that.