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> “If I went through and only passed the students I knew had put in a sincere ongoing effort I might have passed [about 2%].” The only reason I went to univers

by pygar 3y ago

> “If I went through and only passed the students I knew had put in a sincere ongoing effort I might have passed [about 2%].” The only reason I went to university is so I can apply for entry level jobs that require a university degree. As long as the job market is structured this way it's cruel to fail student for not putting in "sincere ongoing effort". Nothing about university is sincere.

pedalpete 3y ago
What sort of jobs? As someone without a degree who ended up as a software engineer at CSIRO, my advice is to just start working. Do interesting stuff. Push yourself. Make a name in the community. I didn't start out by saying "I'm going to become a software engineer at CSIRO", I'm Canadian, so didn't even know what CSIRO was. I think one of the strange things about people who think they need to get a degree to get a job, is that they often are trying to get the job they might get after having a degree, but without the degree. You have to start somewhere, but my thinking is that if you were to take the lowliest job, and just start, you'd be far ahead of those who went and got a degree by the time you spent 4 years in the industry. Just my 2 cents. Of course, it depends on what you are trying to do. We're currently hiring for a neuroscientist, and of course, that needs a university degree.
- chii 3y ago
  > you'd be far ahead of those who went and got a degree by the time you spent 4 years in the industry. but you're not competing against someone starting a degree, you're competing against those who graduated today, and is looking for their first job. All else equal, an employer is going to rank someone with a degree above someone without, given both have no industry/relevant experience to start with. You have to show extraordinary capability somehow. Or have some personal connection which outshine the degree in the eye of the hiring person.
  - pedalpete 3y ago
    I think you missed what I am suggesting. You aren't going for the same job as somebody with a degree. It depends on what industry, but find a foot in the door and work to where you would end up in 4 years. I didn't just say "I'm going to be a software engineer let me apply at CSIRO". I applied to work at the IT help desk at a company in my home town. The manager there said "not without a degree", so I worked in customer service, ended up in communications, and built an IT system to improve communications in the company. The help desk manager still said "nope, you can't work here without a degree", but the CTO saw the work I'd done and said, just come work for head office building the systems, why would you want to work at the help desk? So, in about 2 years, I was working a better job than had I applied through the regular channels after getting a university degree. There's always a 3rd door. You can't face life head-on, it has more experience at keeping those doors closed to you. But ask yourself - if there is another way in, what is that way. Try that. You'll be wrong. Try again, you'll be wrong again. But eventually, you'll be right.

by pygar 3y ago

pedalpete 3y ago

What sort of jobs? As someone without a degree who ended up as a software engineer at CSIRO, my advice is to just start working. Do interesting stuff. Push yourself. Make a name in the community. I didn't start out by saying "I'm going to become a software engineer at CSIRO", I'm Canadian, so didn't even know what CSIRO was. I think one of the strange things about people who think they need to get a degree to get a job, is that they often are trying to get the job they might get after having a degree, but without the degree. You have to start somewhere, but my thinking is that if you were to take the lowliest job, and just start, you'd be far ahead of those who went and got a degree by the time you spent 4 years in the industry. Just my 2 cents. Of course, it depends on what you are trying to do. We're currently hiring for a neuroscientist, and of course, that needs a university degree.

chii 3y ago
> you'd be far ahead of those who went and got a degree by the time you spent 4 years in the industry. but you're not competing against someone starting a degree, you're competing against those who graduated today, and is looking for their first job. All else equal, an employer is going to rank someone with a degree above someone without, given both have no industry/relevant experience to start with. You have to show extraordinary capability somehow. Or have some personal connection which outshine the degree in the eye of the hiring person.
- pedalpete 3y ago
  I think you missed what I am suggesting. You aren't going for the same job as somebody with a degree. It depends on what industry, but find a foot in the door and work to where you would end up in 4 years. I didn't just say "I'm going to be a software engineer let me apply at CSIRO". I applied to work at the IT help desk at a company in my home town. The manager there said "not without a degree", so I worked in customer service, ended up in communications, and built an IT system to improve communications in the company. The help desk manager still said "nope, you can't work here without a degree", but the CTO saw the work I'd done and said, just come work for head office building the systems, why would you want to work at the help desk? So, in about 2 years, I was working a better job than had I applied through the regular channels after getting a university degree. There's always a 3rd door. You can't face life head-on, it has more experience at keeping those doors closed to you. But ask yourself - if there is another way in, what is that way. Try that. You'll be wrong. Try again, you'll be wrong again. But eventually, you'll be right.