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Not just you. I would guess, optimistically, I’m averaging a 5% conversion rate of applications to recruiter chats/“stage 0 interviews”. That is, ~95% of applic
by moosedev 3y ago
Not just you. I would guess, optimistically, I’m averaging a 5% conversion rate of applications to recruiter chats/“stage 0 interviews”. That is, ~95% of applications yield silence or a generic email rejection without any human contact.
~15 YOE, FAANG experience, usually only applying to roles I feel I’m at least a halfway good fit for (i.e. not a complete scattergun approach).
I’m (financially) fine for now, which is very fortunate. I wasn’t even laid off - I quit voluntarily and took a sabbatical while the good times were rollin’. But since I started looking seriously again, it’s been hard to shake the sense of time disappearing with nothing to show for it. I’m better at Leetcode (ugh) than I’ve ever been, but so is everyone else, and with the slow drip of actual interviews, I only get to demonstrate it once or twice a month :)
ETA: A few of the recruiters I have talked with have mentioned that they’re getting hundreds of applications within hours of a posting going live. So there is likely a “lost in volume” effect as another commenter mentioned. In fact, for some of the roles where I thought I was a great fit but got a generic rejection without a recruiter call, I’ve had some eventual success simply reapplying for the same role, at least when the recruiting platform allows it (some don’t). For reasons of culture and upbringing, it took me a while to get comfortable not taking that initial, faceless “no” for an answer, but it has worked at least twice so far.
- gautamdivgi 3y agoIf you are a US citizen try defense companies. Edit: I should have explained my reasoning. They have a much smaller eligible applicant pool - US citizens who are eligible for security clearance. Because of this they’re continuously looking for good talent.
- naterkane 3y agonobody is sponsoring clearances for uncleared talent right now. dod/ic work is always a career dead-end unless it’s all you want to do until you retire.
- wunderland 3y agoDamn this is the most depressing comment in this whole comments section
- gautamdivgi 3y agoWhy - if I may ask? What’s wrong with pointing out potential employers?
- sli 3y agoIt's depressing for the same reason why the military getting pushed onto people as a way to afford college, and the way that frequently works out in reality, is depressing.
- 1attice 3y agoWell, I can't speak for parent, but those of us that aren't U.S. citizens are already having a hellish time. To those of us with work visas, this is like saying, "if you're homeless, just go to your vacation home," and then being surprised that people without vacation homes express feelings of despair.
- neilv 3y agoI think most people realize that people on visas can be in an additionally tough situation during layoffs. I think the commenter's helpful suggestion has an implied "Unfortunately, this doesn't help everyone, but..." In an attempt to help the people it can help. For people currently in certain especially difficult or unfair situations, it might hurt less to know that people are sympathetic, though they might feel powerless to help right now. Knowing that, maybe some of the people getting the short end of the stick would prefer not to have that constantly articulated. I can only guess at when is the right time to articulate, and when to leave it implied.
- 1attice 3y agoYep, and I have no beef with the original comment. However, someone explicitly requested an explanation, and so I gave one.
- moosedev 3y agoI’m not a citizen, but I’m holding out for a pure “tech” company for now anyway for various reasons. Thanks for the hint anyway - perhaps someone else will benefit.
- gautamdivgi 3y agoThat's why posted it. Most people ignore them but they do have good opportunities and generally don't have issues with ageism that exists. They are very invested in tech though. Mostly devices and embedded systems from what I know.
- irrational 3y agoMay I ask why? I’ve done both pure tech companies and tech jobs at non-tech Fortune 100 companies. I much prefer the latter. In my experience there is less stress (I work about 30-35 hours per week), great benefits, competitive salary, interesting projects, don’t have to live in one of the tech hubs, good coworkers and boss, etc.
- decafninja 3y agoHave worked at non-tech companies (finance) for most of my career. Currently at a FAANG-tier company. Needless to say, the pay at non-tech companies is substantially lower than FAANG and FAANG-tier tech companies. I quadrupled my TC going from the finance industry to my current company - and finance is known to pay above average for a non-tech company. I would say the junior SWEs with <5yoe at my current company make at least as much as the staff SWE equivalents (10+ to multiple decades yoe) at my previous company (bank). But money aside: - The onerous bureacracy. - General lack of respect for tech employees (you're the cost center). - Dull/depressing office (assuming you're not WFH). - My colleagues at the non-tech companies I've worked for were nice, great, people. I keep in touch with many of them. But objectively speaking I would say the overall technical caliber is noticeably lower than that of my current colleagues at the FAANG-tier company. For what it's worth, most of my colleagues at the non-tech companies that I felt were great technically...eventually also jumped ship for tech companies.
- dhosek 3y agoYeah, I’m about to hit 6 months of looking with a few final round interviews but no hire. It’s very discouraging. Especially when I see headlines talking about how the overall job market is hot.
- hbcondo714 3y ago> A few of the recruiters I have talked with have mentioned that they’re getting hundreds of applications within hours of a posting going live I think a good example of this is on LinkedIn. I see "Over 200 Applicants" and "See how you compare to 421 applicants" on their Easy Apply job postings.
- gumballindie 3y ago> FAANG experience Probably the reason. Most companies need people with experience in more than just one layer of a stack. Hard times for those who cant own a full stack, unfortunately.
- throwaway5959 3y agoI look at FAANG experience as a negative for startup work. I’d much prefer to hire someone with five years of experience at three startups than five years of experience at Google.
- whiplash451 3y agoDid OP say he sas applying at startups?
- haasted 3y agoFAANG is shorthand for Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google, not a specific tech stack.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hkt 3y agoThe point is that an engineer at a FAANG likely owns a miniscule fraction of the stack, whatever that may be. The average company doesn't need or want someone who is so deeply specialised.
- Our_Benefactors 3y agoThis is such a ridiculous notion to be that I find a hard time lending it any credence. The reason average companies pass on FAANG is generally that they can’t afford them. Not “oh, this guy isn’t Jack-of-all-trades enough, we’re really looking for a midrate web contractor that still uses jquery but also knows some SQL”.
- 0zemp1c 3y agoI don't doubt that the market is tough...I wonder if some recruiters are shying away from FAANG resumes due to the implicit expectation of high comp
- dmarble 3y agoVery similar story here on the PM side in the US. ~15 YOE (FB/Meta most recently), ramping up a search after a sabbatical, targeted job search to roles where I have non-trivial experience and domain expertise, customized cover letters, leveraging my network, open to relocation, open to hybrid or remote, etc. I'm seeing 3-5% response rate over the past few months. It's rough out there. No response for seemingly great matches. Slow moving recruiting process, even at early-stage startups. Rejections after screenings and first round interviews where the mutual fit seemed excellent. Hiring manager friends and talkative recruiters tell me that in contrast to the past decade where they'd routinely screen people who met most of what they're looking for, they're now dealing with a massive volume of very qualified applicants (and trudging through a massive volume of unqualified applicants). Deciding who to screen and who to do a first round of interviews with is taking a lot more time and effort. And the first round of interviews might include 6-8 unicorn (i.e. perfect) candidates, where in the past they'd be elated to find 1 unicorn. I've been through a couple down cycles, so I'm focused on grinding away till I find something. I think every level is feeling the pain in some proportional way. Big sympathy for early career folks. Even if we reset compensation expectations, it'd be a shame if the sector ends up losing out permanently on a range of talent. There's no way tech needs are going to decrease on a medium-term horizon (though they may shift).
- jacknews 3y ago" I wasn’t even laid off - I quit voluntarily and took a sabbatical while the good times were rollin’. " Did the same. Boy do I feel dumb now.
- granshaw 3y agoEmployers wanted to regain the upper hand and it's working – bye bye great resignation
- moosedev 3y agoI don't really regret quitting - I was getting pretty depressed at my previous job, and not working at all was a vast improvement. I perhaps could've persuaded myself to jump back in 3-6 months earlier, before the job market fell off a cliff.
- jacknews 3y agoActually I lied, I was laid off at the height of covid (company folded), I just decided to take a long sabbatical and try other things rather than going right back to a job; looking after family (kids were off school for almost a year), side projects etc. I also don't regret the time doing other things, only the lost opportunity to make bank and I suppose the 'not-a-wage-slave hole' in my CV, but now I need money sooner than expect, for reasons. Most jobs themselves do not appear to have become much more attractive since last time, to say the least, and on top of that, it seems they've turned recruitment into some kind of hunger games competition. I think in general the level of trust and loyalty workers are going to be willing to give will be much reduced, let's say, so I think this little game, and I do think it's game rather than necessity, is going to cost them in the long run.
- tmb5cg 3y agoReminds me of recent WSJ article, laid of WhatsApp engineer saying he isn’t applying to anything in this environment: “ Competing with thousands of other workers for positions he suspected might not actually get filled or getting a lowball offer didn’t appeal, so Mr. Moynihan has instead been leveraging his strategic partnership skills to help clients on a project basis at a rate of $300 an hour. “It’s a cautionary tale for the titans because I do think amazing talent is being dispersed into smaller tech companies that eventually end up competing,” he said.“
- 908B64B197 3y ago> FAANG experience From a recruiter's perspective, this can be a red flag because they know how much you are worth, and the fact that you worked successfully there means you can probably return. So they might not want to hire you thinking "this guy can leave us for Meta/Google any day". > ETA: A few of the recruiters I have talked with have mentioned that they’re getting hundreds of applications within hours of a posting going live. So there is likely a “lost in volume” effect as another commenter mentioned. The real question is what's the signal to noise ratio? Getting 500 resume for a job posting is not really a new thing for any in-demand, remote friendly company in the bay area. From experience, most applicants on these postings are underqualified (it's free to apply).
- fatnoah 3y agoI went through the process in the fall (starting about a month before being laid off, as it turns out) with almost 25 YOE. My background includes significant startup experience at all levels, plus FAANG and some bigger companies. It took me about 3 months to find a role. The process itself was unlike anything I'd ever experienced before. I've always been very targeted in applications, so prior to this the largest number of jobs I applied to in a job search was 5, and the grand total of job applications to date that didn't result in a phone screen was 2 or 3. This time around, I was looking for a management gig, and sent about 54 applications. Due to a combination of being very targeted and being a little early in the layoff cycle (early fall last year), I managed to get about 10 cases of actually talking to a recruiter, 4 speaking with the hiring manager, 2 going through the full process, and 1 offer. I did also have another 10 recruiter conversations through my own network of recruiters and inbound LinkedIn requests. A not-so-fun fact is that all but one large-company recruiter I talked this has since been laid off. One of those companies laid off the first recruiter I was talking to, and then laid off the second a couple weeks later.
- granshaw 3y ago> A not-so-fun fact is that all but one large-company recruiter I talked this has since been laid off. So 9 out of 10 were laid off? That's pretty shocking and dire if so...
- matheusmoreira 3y agoIf it's brutal for a person with 15+ years of experience, I don't even want to imagine what it's like joining the job market with 0 years of experience now.
- orihab 3y ago0 years of experience is definitely tough, but for mid level devs (3-6 yrs) it may actually be easier than super seniors, because yes, overqualification... Me personally I just started a job at a Canadian company after low key looking and applying to various companies for the past couple of months. And I definitely got a lot of ghosting/generic rejections but definitely less than 95%. I'm a good 3-5yr, mid-level dev, without FAANG company experience.
- granshaw 3y agoThis might be one of those times to remove some experiences from your history, push forward your graduation date, and settle for a “normal” senior position (assuming all else fails)