5 ms·

Then you give -10 days notice. 2 weeks is a nicety and not legally required in the USA. Probably not required in many other places as well. It's unfortunate but

Then you give -10 days notice. 2 weeks is a nicety and not legally required in the USA. Probably not required in many other places as well. It's unfortunate but I've never had a manager get too upset about it.

93po 4y ago
Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. I don't know why it's an expectation that employees would give notice without any reciprocation.
- vikingerik 4y ago
  0 day notice and no severance is unusual, at least for skilled professional jobs in the US. It does happen, but usually only for some unusual circumstance, like some kind of employee misbehavior or a sudden financial calamity for the company. Two weeks notice by the employee or severance by the employer is the most common case on both sides, probably for roughly 80% or so of professional jobs including all of my own. Of course it does suck to be in the outlying 20%, and the anecdotes will trend towards reporting that case, but is the minority. Most actors on both sides behave well, even if there is a substantial minority of problems. (Edit since some replies seem to have the wrong idea - termination effective immediately without notice is common, but usually there is severance pay except in cases of misconduct or disaster.)
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    I've never had notice of a firing or severance so I don't know how common it is.
  - 93po 4y ago
    i have worked full-time at 6 different companies in engineering and management roles (admittedly none larger than ~300-500 people) and this wasn't the case for anyone at any of them, and have also never heard anecdotes from people in my life in general about this happening to them. i don't not-believe you, but I would be super surprised if the 80% figure is accurate the more common thing i've seen time and again is someone giving two week notice and then being told to not bother with the last two weeks (and not getting paid for it either). after one of my employers did this to a coworker i liked who was relying on that final paycheck for rent, i quit a couple months later with 0 notice "because it seems like you guys don't do 2 week notice here". I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down
    - RussianCow 4y ago
      > I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down I obviously don't know anything about the company, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet by leaving.
  - RussianCow 4y ago
    Anecdotally, I have never heard of a US company giving two weeks notice for a termination of any kind. The vast majority of terminations I've seen are immediate, but I've also seen companies give termination dates in the (relatively) far future to employees (generally a couple months, but I've seen 1-2 years). Severance is also only common in large organizations. I've seen few small startups or bootstrapped companies pay severance when letting people go.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      Once here too. We were told the company was shrinking by almost half once we hit 1.0 on our project, which was still six weeks away. We would get extra severance if we stayed and if we hit the deadline.
    - vidanay 4y ago
      I've seen it once in 25 years. Management told an engineer that she would be layed off/terminated "when she is done with the project she is working on". She milked the project for almost four months and then quit on her own after finding a new job. Turns out she did almost zero work during those four months. Can't say I blame her.
      - maleldil1 4y ago
        I did something similar about 15 years ago. I worked in a small remote office far from the company's headquarters. On an all-hands call one of the executives let it slip that they were going to shutter our office and close down the remote branch in 7 months. We kind of saw it coming, as 90% of the people who worked in that office had been laid off in the previous months, and we didn't really have any new work coming in or projects left to finish. They didn't just lay us off, though, so the 15 of us that were still there just got paid to go to job interviews for 6 months. It was pretty surreal, but I'm glad we got the heads up regardless.
    - vikingerik 4y ago
      Right, termination is usually done immediately, nobody wants to keep a jilted employee on hand to cause damage on their way out the door. But unless the termination was for some kind of misbehavior, severance pay is most common, even among fairly small companies in my experience. (Maybe not a startup in immediate danger of insolvency, of course.)
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. That is not typical nor the norm. Most companies have established PiP policies, and severance even in the cases of "for cause" terminations (though that is rarer) "Fire with 0 day notice and no severance" is more likely to be found at startups, and/or small owner led companies with no real policies, or HR Depts.
  - ido 4y ago
    Don't know what the law is like in most states in the US but in the EU if the employee has been with the company for longer than 6 months it wouldn't even be legal to fire with 0 notice & no severance - generally companies wants you out asap but continue paying your salary for the minimums require by law. In my experience at least 2 weeks and more commonly 1+ months (I've seen people get 3 months, that have worked at the company for several years). This of course doesn't apply if the employee did something like outright breaking the law or the terms of their contract (rare).
    - mousetree 4y ago
      I think it goes without saying that the EU is different. Here in Germany, in fact things are problematic in the other direction. For the last 2 hires I made, their previous company forced them to work through their 3 month notice period.
      - Jare 4y ago
        That's becoming more and more widespread. It's idiotic and counterproductive but apparently companies love some fake sense of security.
        ido 4y ago
        I think this is more for "traditional" companies, I've never seen a startup here (Berlin) do that in the 10 years I've been living here.
- msm_ 4y ago
  > Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. This is only true in the US.
occamrazor 4y ago
In many places the notice period is enforceable, with a standard period of three to six months for senior positions.
- dopidopHN 4y ago
  Yeah that my experience outside of the US. And it’s kinda nice. Less rushed.
- irrational 4y ago
  What places?
  - knowhy 4y ago
    In Germany at least 4 weeks depending on how long you have been with the company up to 7 months.
  - Shaanie 4y ago
    Three months is fairly common in Sweden, and longer than that isn't all that rare (often depends on how long you've worked at the company).
  - skeletal88 4y ago
    Other countriesin the world, besides the US. In European countries you can't just tell someone tonnit come tomorrow and not pay anything. Sure you csn tell them to not come anymore if you want to keep your secrets or whatever but the company has to pay for this notice period like the person was working there. When I or colleagues have changed jobs then we have given a month or more notice, continued working etc. Only when someone is fired for total incompetence or just not showing up you don't want to see them anymore ever in the office so the company pays for the notice period time.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Varies by province in Canada but generally there is a fixed amount of time you need to be at the company before they can just kick you out. For example in Alberta if you've been with an employer longer than 2 years you must give them 2 weeks. They can terminate you immediately after you resign, but they own you 2 weeks of pay. Likewise, if the company lays you off, they have to give you up to 8-weeks notice depending on how many years you were with the company; 10+ years warrants the full 8-weeks, while 2-4 years in service gets you 2-weeks. These are also mandatory minimums; some companies or employees with contracts or collective agreements may get / offer more. Plenty of loopholes there, like for "just cause", and some industries are "exempted by custom" or by law, like construction or forestry. * https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx
irrational 4y ago
At my company, there is no 2 weeks. The day you give your two weeks notice is your last day. We might pay you for those two weeks, depending on circumstances, but your building and network access is cut off within the hour. So, I personally would not give my notice until the day I actually want to be my last day.
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  This is pretty common. Even more so outside of tech. I did sales for a while and this was normal.
- ghaff 4y ago
  That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. My impression is that two weeks notice with continued access is pretty standard so long as you're leaving on good terms.
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    > That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. Many companies are essentially antagonistic with all IT resources. It's very common where positions are not well paid or the company is not tech-centric, eg Mike Ferry Organization
  - grayhatter 4y ago
    his username is literally irrational... kinda makes sense
  - chihuahua 4y ago
    At Microsoft, the standard practice is that if you say you're leaving to take a job a company they consider a competitor, they cut off all your access at the end of the day, even if your manager wants you to stick around for knowledge transfer. If it's not a competitor, it's up to you how much notice you want to give. If you say you're leaving but don't say who your next employer is, they assume it's a competitor. Facebook was classified as a competitor, Amazon was not.

93po 4y ago

Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. I don't know why it's an expectation that employees would give notice without any reciprocation.

vikingerik 4y ago
0 day notice and no severance is unusual, at least for skilled professional jobs in the US. It does happen, but usually only for some unusual circumstance, like some kind of employee misbehavior or a sudden financial calamity for the company. Two weeks notice by the employee or severance by the employer is the most common case on both sides, probably for roughly 80% or so of professional jobs including all of my own. Of course it does suck to be in the outlying 20%, and the anecdotes will trend towards reporting that case, but is the minority. Most actors on both sides behave well, even if there is a substantial minority of problems. (Edit since some replies seem to have the wrong idea - termination effective immediately without notice is common, but usually there is severance pay except in cases of misconduct or disaster.)
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  I've never had notice of a firing or severance so I don't know how common it is.
- 93po 4y ago
  i have worked full-time at 6 different companies in engineering and management roles (admittedly none larger than ~300-500 people) and this wasn't the case for anyone at any of them, and have also never heard anecdotes from people in my life in general about this happening to them. i don't not-believe you, but I would be super surprised if the 80% figure is accurate the more common thing i've seen time and again is someone giving two week notice and then being told to not bother with the last two weeks (and not getting paid for it either). after one of my employers did this to a coworker i liked who was relying on that final paycheck for rent, i quit a couple months later with 0 notice "because it seems like you guys don't do 2 week notice here". I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down
  - RussianCow 4y ago
    > I got threatened with a baseless lawsuit for that cheeky stunt and they abused DMCA claims on my consulting website to try to get it taken down I obviously don't know anything about the company, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet by leaving.
- RussianCow 4y ago
  Anecdotally, I have never heard of a US company giving two weeks notice for a termination of any kind. The vast majority of terminations I've seen are immediate, but I've also seen companies give termination dates in the (relatively) far future to employees (generally a couple months, but I've seen 1-2 years). Severance is also only common in large organizations. I've seen few small startups or bootstrapped companies pay severance when letting people go.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    Once here too. We were told the company was shrinking by almost half once we hit 1.0 on our project, which was still six weeks away. We would get extra severance if we stayed and if we hit the deadline.
  - vidanay 4y ago
    I've seen it once in 25 years. Management told an engineer that she would be layed off/terminated "when she is done with the project she is working on". She milked the project for almost four months and then quit on her own after finding a new job. Turns out she did almost zero work during those four months. Can't say I blame her.
    - maleldil1 4y ago
      I did something similar about 15 years ago. I worked in a small remote office far from the company's headquarters. On an all-hands call one of the executives let it slip that they were going to shutter our office and close down the remote branch in 7 months. We kind of saw it coming, as 90% of the people who worked in that office had been laid off in the previous months, and we didn't really have any new work coming in or projects left to finish. They didn't just lay us off, though, so the 15 of us that were still there just got paid to go to job interviews for 6 months. It was pretty surreal, but I'm glad we got the heads up regardless.
  - vikingerik 4y ago
    Right, termination is usually done immediately, nobody wants to keep a jilted employee on hand to cause damage on their way out the door. But unless the termination was for some kind of misbehavior, severance pay is most common, even among fairly small companies in my experience. (Maybe not a startup in immediate danger of insolvency, of course.)
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. That is not typical nor the norm. Most companies have established PiP policies, and severance even in the cases of "for cause" terminations (though that is rarer) "Fire with 0 day notice and no severance" is more likely to be found at startups, and/or small owner led companies with no real policies, or HR Depts.
- ido 4y ago
  Don't know what the law is like in most states in the US but in the EU if the employee has been with the company for longer than 6 months it wouldn't even be legal to fire with 0 notice & no severance - generally companies wants you out asap but continue paying your salary for the minimums require by law. In my experience at least 2 weeks and more commonly 1+ months (I've seen people get 3 months, that have worked at the company for several years). This of course doesn't apply if the employee did something like outright breaking the law or the terms of their contract (rare).
  - mousetree 4y ago
    I think it goes without saying that the EU is different. Here in Germany, in fact things are problematic in the other direction. For the last 2 hires I made, their previous company forced them to work through their 3 month notice period.
    - Jare 4y ago
      That's becoming more and more widespread. It's idiotic and counterproductive but apparently companies love some fake sense of security.
      - ido 4y ago
        I think this is more for "traditional" companies, I've never seen a startup here (Berlin) do that in the 10 years I've been living here.
msm_ 4y ago
> Also jobs often/usually fire people with 0 day notice and no severance. This is only true in the US.

occamrazor 4y ago

In many places the notice period is enforceable, with a standard period of three to six months for senior positions.

dopidopHN 4y ago
Yeah that my experience outside of the US. And it’s kinda nice. Less rushed.
irrational 4y ago
What places?
- knowhy 4y ago
  In Germany at least 4 weeks depending on how long you have been with the company up to 7 months.
- Shaanie 4y ago
  Three months is fairly common in Sweden, and longer than that isn't all that rare (often depends on how long you've worked at the company).
- skeletal88 4y ago
  Other countriesin the world, besides the US. In European countries you can't just tell someone tonnit come tomorrow and not pay anything. Sure you csn tell them to not come anymore if you want to keep your secrets or whatever but the company has to pay for this notice period like the person was working there. When I or colleagues have changed jobs then we have given a month or more notice, continued working etc. Only when someone is fired for total incompetence or just not showing up you don't want to see them anymore ever in the office so the company pays for the notice period time.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Varies by province in Canada but generally there is a fixed amount of time you need to be at the company before they can just kick you out. For example in Alberta if you've been with an employer longer than 2 years you must give them 2 weeks. They can terminate you immediately after you resign, but they own you 2 weeks of pay. Likewise, if the company lays you off, they have to give you up to 8-weeks notice depending on how many years you were with the company; 10+ years warrants the full 8-weeks, while 2-4 years in service gets you 2-weeks. These are also mandatory minimums; some companies or employees with contracts or collective agreements may get / offer more. Plenty of loopholes there, like for "just cause", and some industries are "exempted by custom" or by law, like construction or forestry. * https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx https://www.alberta.ca/termination-pay.aspx

irrational 4y ago

At my company, there is no 2 weeks. The day you give your two weeks notice is your last day. We might pay you for those two weeks, depending on circumstances, but your building and network access is cut off within the hour. So, I personally would not give my notice until the day I actually want to be my last day.

AlwaysRock 4y ago
This is pretty common. Even more so outside of tech. I did sales for a while and this was normal.
ghaff 4y ago
That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. My impression is that two weeks notice with continued access is pretty standard so long as you're leaving on good terms.
- Supermancho 4y ago
  > That has never been the case at any company I have ever worked for. Many companies are essentially antagonistic with all IT resources. It's very common where positions are not well paid or the company is not tech-centric, eg Mike Ferry Organization
- grayhatter 4y ago
  his username is literally irrational... kinda makes sense
- chihuahua 4y ago
  At Microsoft, the standard practice is that if you say you're leaving to take a job a company they consider a competitor, they cut off all your access at the end of the day, even if your manager wants you to stick around for knowledge transfer. If it's not a competitor, it's up to you how much notice you want to give. If you say you're leaving but don't say who your next employer is, they assume it's a competitor. Facebook was classified as a competitor, Amazon was not.