3 ms·

Can you recommend a language that doesn't crash?

by bogwog 4y ago

GaggiX 4y ago
Any language that enforces memory safety is unlikely to crash because of a segmentation fault.
- kylieee 4y ago
  They will instead crash because of an uncaught exception or a panic handler - end result is the same.
  - GaggiX 4y ago
    By removing segmentation fault crash you have removed a large portion of unwanted crashes, the end result is very different.
    - kylieee 4y ago
      But the crashes doesn't get removed, they get transformed into error types or exceptions and you still crash when you don't handle them.
      - GaggiX 4y ago
        This is only true if the language does not employ static analysis.
jeroenhd 4y ago
There are some languages that can be formally verified, and have themselves been formally verified. Formal verification is a complete pain in the ass to do and there's a reason it's mostly done only in the most critical of systems, but if a program passes 100% formal validation, you're as close to crash free as you can possibly be. I believe Ada and some other lesser used language sport well supported formal verification methods. You won't be able to use C/C++/Java/Rust it you're going for 100% formal verification though. There are attempts to bring the concepts to more commonly used languages (Frama-C, for example) but in my experience they're stuck in PhD-ware hell, great for writing papers but terrible for writing actual software.
- KsassPeuk 4y ago
  Frama-C is used in production to meet normative requirements for critical software at least at Airbus (DO-178C), THALES (CC EAL6/7), EDF (ISO 60880). I think that they use actual software in production.
still_grokking 4y ago
For example C/C++, with the help of something like: https://www.absint.com/astree/index.htm https://www.absint.com/astree/index.htm But there are actually other languages that are better suited to such methods: More or less everything from the functional space is quite well applicable to those.

Can you recommend a language that doesn't crash?

by bogwog 4y ago

Can you recommend a language that doesn't crash?

GaggiX 4y ago

Any language that enforces memory safety is unlikely to crash because of a segmentation fault.

kylieee 4y ago
They will instead crash because of an uncaught exception or a panic handler - end result is the same.
- GaggiX 4y ago
  By removing segmentation fault crash you have removed a large portion of unwanted crashes, the end result is very different.
  - kylieee 4y ago
    But the crashes doesn't get removed, they get transformed into error types or exceptions and you still crash when you don't handle them.
    - GaggiX 4y ago
      This is only true if the language does not employ static analysis.

jeroenhd 4y ago

There are some languages that can be formally verified, and have themselves been formally verified. Formal verification is a complete pain in the ass to do and there's a reason it's mostly done only in the most critical of systems, but if a program passes 100% formal validation, you're as close to crash free as you can possibly be. I believe Ada and some other lesser used language sport well supported formal verification methods. You won't be able to use C/C++/Java/Rust it you're going for 100% formal verification though. There are attempts to bring the concepts to more commonly used languages (Frama-C, for example) but in my experience they're stuck in PhD-ware hell, great for writing papers but terrible for writing actual software.

KsassPeuk 4y ago
Frama-C is used in production to meet normative requirements for critical software at least at Airbus (DO-178C), THALES (CC EAL6/7), EDF (ISO 60880). I think that they use actual software in production.

still_grokking 4y ago

For example C/C++, with the help of something like: https://www.absint.com/astree/index.htm https://www.absint.com/astree/index.htm But there are actually other languages that are better suited to such methods: More or less everything from the functional space is quite well applicable to those.