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Title should include “in healthy lean individuals” which was the study title. Without that it sounds like the study contradicts a huge body of evidence which it

Title should include “in healthy lean individuals” which was the study title. Without that it sounds like the study contradicts a huge body of evidence which it doesn’t.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago
I remember a small experiment between two healthy identical twins who were both almost identically healthy. One went on a low carb diet and the other a low fat diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1f9g9Y1wm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1f9g9Y1wm0 They both lost some weight, although the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic.
- pengaru 4y ago
  > the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic "Low-carb" dude removed all fruits and vegetables. He didn't do low-carb, he did no-carb - in his own words: "meat cheese eggs". The whole clip just reeks of b.s. though, neither of these guys would be getting air time if the results weren't click-bait controversy fodder. The b.s. incentives are clear.
- mrleinad 4y ago
  I didn't see any reference to the study, but from the first comment in that video it seems that the doctor said "his body would stop producing insulin" because his blood insulin levels were low? Doesn't sound right to me. [1]"Prediabetes happens when your blood glucose levels are higher than normal, but not high enough to be diagnosed as diabetes. Prediabetes usually occurs in people who already have some insulin resistance." So, it doesn't sound right that he would be pre-diabetic when his blood glucose levels would be low. Seems that doctor made the assumption that because his blood insulin was low, his body would just stop producing it at some point, and that's not how it works. [1]https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22206-insulin-resistance https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22206-insulin...
- 876978095789789 4y ago
  > They both lost some weight, although the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic. It's been known for decades (outside of the HN reality distortion field) that excess accumulation of intramyocellular lipids in skeletal muscle is the primary underlying mechanism driving Type 2 Diabetes, so that's pretty much the outcome you'd expect.
  - BigCryo 4y ago
    So what are you saying ?? that that dietary fat interferes with the action of insulin and causes insulin resistance?
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      Nah. It’s not the dietary fat, it’s the excess fat in your body. Lose the extra fat in whatever way works for you.
      - BigCryo 4y ago
        Much easier said than done especially when it comes to keeping it off.. much much easier
        amanaplanacanal 4y ago
        Oh yes, I know. Boy do I know.
    - 876978095789789 4y ago
      Yes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/
  - jgalvez 4y ago
    This.
  - fierro 4y ago
876978095789789 4y ago
> Title should include “in healthy lean individuals” which was the study title Weightloss improves various metabolic biomarkers, including markers of insulin sensitivity, and so the fact that people who lose weight following a particular intervention (low-carb or whatever else) see such improvements is unsurprising. That's why looking at subjects who are already lean is much more informative: it gives a better sense of the metabolic effects of the dietary intervention itself, not confounded by weightloss. > Without that it sounds like the study contradicts a huge body of evidence which it doesn’t. What huge body of evidence? All of the people drastically restricting their carbohydrate consumption so they can cheat on their fasting BG and HbA1C tests? Give those people an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test and measure their insulin response in real time, and the vast majority of them would fail, especially the ones on high (saturated) fat diets: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ > Our finding of a strong relationship between VO2max and relatively unsaturated IMCL pools in controls and athletes points to a role of exercise in decreasing the amount of saturated fat within the IMCL store. The association of insulin resistance with the accumulation of saturated IMCLs, even within a healthy control population, could suggest an early involvement in its pathogenesis and provide a reason why combined exercise and diet are effective therapeutic options in the early stages of insulin resistance. High-fat diets are atrocious for insulin sensitivity.
- user3939382 4y ago
  > What huge body of evidence Sorry I’m not going to whip a metaanalysis together for you to refute your flippant HN comment. The evidence is out there, apparently you’re one of these people that turned your conclusions into a religion. That’s fine, please don’t waste other people’s time asking for evidence as if you’re willing to have a good faith discussion. Use a search engine.
- noctuid 4y ago
  This is not pathological insulin resistance and is an expected adaptation. OGTT is useless for someone on a low carb diet. A normal person can go from failing to passing in ~72 hours by reintroducing higher levels of carbohydrates. Good luck reversing diabetes in 72 hours...

Title should include “in healthy lean individuals” which was the study title. Without that it sounds like the study contradicts a huge body of evidence which it doesn’t.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago

I remember a small experiment between two healthy identical twins who were both almost identically healthy. One went on a low carb diet and the other a low fat diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1f9g9Y1wm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1f9g9Y1wm0 They both lost some weight, although the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic.

pengaru 4y ago
> the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic "Low-carb" dude removed all fruits and vegetables. He didn't do low-carb, he did no-carb - in his own words: "meat cheese eggs". The whole clip just reeks of b.s. though, neither of these guys would be getting air time if the results weren't click-bait controversy fodder. The b.s. incentives are clear.
mrleinad 4y ago
I didn't see any reference to the study, but from the first comment in that video it seems that the doctor said "his body would stop producing insulin" because his blood insulin levels were low? Doesn't sound right to me. [1]"Prediabetes happens when your blood glucose levels are higher than normal, but not high enough to be diagnosed as diabetes. Prediabetes usually occurs in people who already have some insulin resistance." So, it doesn't sound right that he would be pre-diabetic when his blood glucose levels would be low. Seems that doctor made the assumption that because his blood insulin was low, his body would just stop producing it at some point, and that's not how it works. [1]https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22206-insulin-resistance https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22206-insulin...
876978095789789 4y ago
> They both lost some weight, although the brother who was on the low-carb diet ended up virtually pre-diabetic. It's been known for decades (outside of the HN reality distortion field) that excess accumulation of intramyocellular lipids in skeletal muscle is the primary underlying mechanism driving Type 2 Diabetes, so that's pretty much the outcome you'd expect.
- BigCryo 4y ago
  So what are you saying ?? that that dietary fat interferes with the action of insulin and causes insulin resistance?
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    Nah. It’s not the dietary fat, it’s the excess fat in your body. Lose the extra fat in whatever way works for you.
    - BigCryo 4y ago
      Much easier said than done especially when it comes to keeping it off.. much much easier
      - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
        Oh yes, I know. Boy do I know.
  - 876978095789789 4y ago
    Yes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/
- jgalvez 4y ago
  This.
- fierro 4y ago

876978095789789 4y ago

> Title should include “in healthy lean individuals” which was the study title Weightloss improves various metabolic biomarkers, including markers of insulin sensitivity, and so the fact that people who lose weight following a particular intervention (low-carb or whatever else) see such improvements is unsurprising. That's why looking at subjects who are already lean is much more informative: it gives a better sense of the metabolic effects of the dietary intervention itself, not confounded by weightloss. > Without that it sounds like the study contradicts a huge body of evidence which it doesn’t. What huge body of evidence? All of the people drastically restricting their carbohydrate consumption so they can cheat on their fasting BG and HbA1C tests? Give those people an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test and measure their insulin response in real time, and the vast majority of them would fail, especially the ones on high (saturated) fat diets: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6602127/ > Our finding of a strong relationship between VO2max and relatively unsaturated IMCL pools in controls and athletes points to a role of exercise in decreasing the amount of saturated fat within the IMCL store. The association of insulin resistance with the accumulation of saturated IMCLs, even within a healthy control population, could suggest an early involvement in its pathogenesis and provide a reason why combined exercise and diet are effective therapeutic options in the early stages of insulin resistance. High-fat diets are atrocious for insulin sensitivity.

user3939382 4y ago
> What huge body of evidence Sorry I’m not going to whip a metaanalysis together for you to refute your flippant HN comment. The evidence is out there, apparently you’re one of these people that turned your conclusions into a religion. That’s fine, please don’t waste other people’s time asking for evidence as if you’re willing to have a good faith discussion. Use a search engine.
noctuid 4y ago
This is not pathological insulin resistance and is an expected adaptation. OGTT is useless for someone on a low carb diet. A normal person can go from failing to passing in ~72 hours by reintroducing higher levels of carbohydrates. Good luck reversing diabetes in 72 hours...