6 ms·

I would never work full time (and especially not double time like startups require for their C-suite) for $130k, I'd far prefer to bootstrap my own business ins

by nawgz 4y ago

I would never work full time (and especially not double time like startups require for their C-suite) for $130k, I'd far prefer to bootstrap my own business instead if that's the rate

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
130k is a very reasonable compensation for early-mid career folks in many places. Assuming your a dev, what sector+region are you in? I'm always fascinated by compensation conversations on HN, because they seem to come from a place of... very high expectations. Don't know how to say that without sounding snarky, that's not my intent. Curious.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ianbutler 4y ago
  Without giving exact information I make more than double that as a senior engineer in NJ working remotely for a non-faang but still big public tech co with approx 10 years professional xp, but I have been writing code for much longer, just shy of 20 years. My area is data engineering and internal tools and devops too depending on the role.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  I’m in the southeast and also make double that. 130k total comp is entry level. I know this because I hired many people last year and some were entry level.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Why shouldn’t very smart people who have also spent years / decades developing technical skills in an industry that is eating the world and is the most profitable thing ever… get paid less than you need to buy a house? If they don’t make high six/low seven figures, who will? Bankers? Lawyers!?
  - benatkin 4y ago
    > If they don’t make high six/low seven figures, who will? Bankers? Lawyers!? Employees and contractors, and founders contingent on equity. Also some who don't agree that founder salaries funded by investment should be modest.
  - roflyear 4y ago
    Not everyone here is a super genius
- nawgz 4y ago
  130k is not a good software engineering salary. Period. Region doesn't matter to me, the floor of cost of living never truly goes that low. Sector? I build and deploy web or mobile apps, and I do as many parts of that as my team doesn't. Experience is 10 years, including with Senior and Engineering Manager titles. Besides the fact that I can make more than $130k by walking in the door across the market, I also believe I could generate a MRR that would return after-expenses revenue higher than that with a new business within 1 year. So I also don't see why I would take a moonshot on a poor salary, when I can aim lower, still have big upside, and avoid VCs stepping all over me
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - metaphor 4y ago
    > MRR that would return after-expenses revenue Come again?
    - nawgz 4y ago
      Awkwardly phrased analogue for "salary potential"
  - reidjs 4y ago
    curious, have you made over $130K a year running your own business? If not, how do you know you could?
    - nawgz 4y ago
      I once worked for a 5-man business that brought in $750k annually, and the two owners were smart guys but no better than me and certainly not as professionally trained. Now, mind you, I'm not saying it would only be the product, I would also be willing to be a consultant (trading the singular VC for multiple, not-quite-fungible-but-closer-to customers), but making only $130k for your soul and a lotto ticket does not sound like an appealing deal.
- wobbly_bush 4y ago
  > because they seem to come from a place of... very high expectations You can see housing prices for whatever areas people are talking about and how much the monthly mortgage comes out to be to get baseline on cost of living.
- adastra22 4y ago
  Not in the SF Bay Area it isn't a reasonable salary.
jimbokun 4y ago
If you were bootstrapping, would you take out > $130k per year for living expenses? I believe the $130k is meant to be in addition to whatever equity the founder is retaining.
- nawgz 4y ago
  > If you were bootstrapping, would you take out > $130k per year for living expenses? Why would you ask this question? > I believe the $130k is meant to be in addition to whatever equity the founder is retaining. Obviously. But I would control 100% of my bootstrapped business, and not be eligible to being outplayed by the VC who controls all the strings and always makes all the money in the end.
ghiculescu 4y ago
Bootstrapping anything to (130k + all other expenses) is not a piece of cake. Many companies never get there even if they raised money.
- nawgz 4y ago
  Sure, I agree. But this is equally true for VC companies. However, in a bootstrapped case, I can just work as a consultant if I need some extra revenue. In a VC case, I don't have extra hours available in my life. I'm also not rich and don't have an appetite for extreme wealth, I'll make a couple milly and call it a career, so that should color your perception of my statements
  - ghiculescu 4y ago
    I hope you make it work!
drusepth 4y ago
As someone who bootstrapped 8 years ago (and has taken nothing but rent+ramen since then), working _only_ double time sounds like a dream. Side-note: $130k being competitive obviously depends on your area/market, but that's far above average rate for senior devs, let alone C-suite, in many areas of the US (and especially outside of the US), so I can see why it might be a baseline for others. Seems like you should adjust this number for you. :)
HWR_14 4y ago
> I'd far prefer to bootstrap my own business instead We're talking about founders who opt to take VC money. You can talk about the benefits of bootstrapping vs. VC, but these are already people who decided to work at below market rate to retain the equity upside.

by nawgz 4y ago

I would never work full time (and especially not double time like startups require for their C-suite) for $130k, I'd far prefer to bootstrap my own business instead if that's the rate

DiggyJohnson 4y ago

130k is a very reasonable compensation for early-mid career folks in many places. Assuming your a dev, what sector+region are you in? I'm always fascinated by compensation conversations on HN, because they seem to come from a place of... very high expectations. Don't know how to say that without sounding snarky, that's not my intent. Curious.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ianbutler 4y ago
Without giving exact information I make more than double that as a senior engineer in NJ working remotely for a non-faang but still big public tech co with approx 10 years professional xp, but I have been writing code for much longer, just shy of 20 years. My area is data engineering and internal tools and devops too depending on the role.
geraldwhen 4y ago
I’m in the southeast and also make double that. 130k total comp is entry level. I know this because I hired many people last year and some were entry level.
FredPret 4y ago
Why shouldn’t very smart people who have also spent years / decades developing technical skills in an industry that is eating the world and is the most profitable thing ever… get paid less than you need to buy a house? If they don’t make high six/low seven figures, who will? Bankers? Lawyers!?
- benatkin 4y ago
  > If they don’t make high six/low seven figures, who will? Bankers? Lawyers!? Employees and contractors, and founders contingent on equity. Also some who don't agree that founder salaries funded by investment should be modest.
- roflyear 4y ago
  Not everyone here is a super genius
nawgz 4y ago
130k is not a good software engineering salary. Period. Region doesn't matter to me, the floor of cost of living never truly goes that low. Sector? I build and deploy web or mobile apps, and I do as many parts of that as my team doesn't. Experience is 10 years, including with Senior and Engineering Manager titles. Besides the fact that I can make more than $130k by walking in the door across the market, I also believe I could generate a MRR that would return after-expenses revenue higher than that with a new business within 1 year. So I also don't see why I would take a moonshot on a poor salary, when I can aim lower, still have big upside, and avoid VCs stepping all over me
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- metaphor 4y ago
  > MRR that would return after-expenses revenue Come again?
  - nawgz 4y ago
    Awkwardly phrased analogue for "salary potential"
- reidjs 4y ago
  curious, have you made over $130K a year running your own business? If not, how do you know you could?
  - nawgz 4y ago
    I once worked for a 5-man business that brought in $750k annually, and the two owners were smart guys but no better than me and certainly not as professionally trained. Now, mind you, I'm not saying it would only be the product, I would also be willing to be a consultant (trading the singular VC for multiple, not-quite-fungible-but-closer-to customers), but making only $130k for your soul and a lotto ticket does not sound like an appealing deal.
wobbly_bush 4y ago
> because they seem to come from a place of... very high expectations You can see housing prices for whatever areas people are talking about and how much the monthly mortgage comes out to be to get baseline on cost of living.
adastra22 4y ago
Not in the SF Bay Area it isn't a reasonable salary.

jimbokun 4y ago

If you were bootstrapping, would you take out > $130k per year for living expenses? I believe the $130k is meant to be in addition to whatever equity the founder is retaining.

nawgz 4y ago
> If you were bootstrapping, would you take out > $130k per year for living expenses? Why would you ask this question? > I believe the $130k is meant to be in addition to whatever equity the founder is retaining. Obviously. But I would control 100% of my bootstrapped business, and not be eligible to being outplayed by the VC who controls all the strings and always makes all the money in the end.

ghiculescu 4y ago

Bootstrapping anything to (130k + all other expenses) is not a piece of cake. Many companies never get there even if they raised money.

nawgz 4y ago
Sure, I agree. But this is equally true for VC companies. However, in a bootstrapped case, I can just work as a consultant if I need some extra revenue. In a VC case, I don't have extra hours available in my life. I'm also not rich and don't have an appetite for extreme wealth, I'll make a couple milly and call it a career, so that should color your perception of my statements
- ghiculescu 4y ago
  I hope you make it work!

drusepth 4y ago

As someone who bootstrapped 8 years ago (and has taken nothing but rent+ramen since then), working _only_ double time sounds like a dream. Side-note: $130k being competitive obviously depends on your area/market, but that's far above average rate for senior devs, let alone C-suite, in many areas of the US (and especially outside of the US), so I can see why it might be a baseline for others. Seems like you should adjust this number for you. :)

HWR_14 4y ago

> I'd far prefer to bootstrap my own business instead We're talking about founders who opt to take VC money. You can talk about the benefits of bootstrapping vs. VC, but these are already people who decided to work at below market rate to retain the equity upside.