5 ms·

Which devices gave you such trouble?

by teh_klev 4y ago

quickthrower2 4y ago
Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13 Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.
- propogandist 4y ago
  A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.
  - ta1243 4y ago
    People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid
    - vips7L 4y ago
      My current Thinkpad T14 is the best laptop I've ever used.
    - criddell 4y ago
      A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1. Maybe they are as solid as they’ve always been, but the bar has been raised and Lenovo, Intel, or Microsoft haven’t responded yet. There are a lot of smart people working on these problems and I’m hopeful that Intel will soon leapfrog Apple and fast, fanless Windows machines with 12+ hours of battery life will be available.
      - StillBored 4y ago
        My P1 isn't great either, largely due to the nvidia GPU consuming more power than anything else in the machine. But other lenovo laptops (with integrated GPUs, and AMD cpus) are pretty fantastic on the battery lifetime front. That said, I think the software stack these days has more to do with it than anything. As I mentioned in another comment its entirely possible to get the power consumption of AMD laptops into the 3-4W range with a modern linux kernel, light browsing, emacs, etc. And that is largely in my case due to assuring there aren't any background tasks consuming CPU time, and running powertop --autotune, assuring inactive HW is turned off when its not being used, cpus are spending most of their time in deep sleep, etc. All stuff that the mac is basically doing out of the box (or running background tasks on low power, etc cores). While I'm getting 15+ hours out of a fairly pedestrian 65Wh battery, which is pretty amazing since the screen and assorted devices (disk, ram, etc) are probably 1-2W of the total. Now all this goes to sh*t when I start running a compiler, or other CPU intensive work, but from my experience that happens on the M1 macs as well, which can get quite toasty and kill the battery life if left building software for an hour or more. Powertop, turbostat, cpupower are all useful diagnostic tools as well as disabling stuff in the BIOS, or powering stuff off (or at least into lower power modes) via the kernel/ACPI power methods. (presumably some of the more efficient intel might be good too if one clamps the CPU freq/etc I've just not tried one, but i'm pretty happy with a couple of their older generation i3/i5 desktop machines). Windows used to be reasonably good, but I get the feeling the new generation (modern standby anyone?) isn't as dedicated, and hence the machine isn't forced into a S3 like mode when the lid is closed. Combined with the apparently fragmented way the OS is built means the people in charge of power mgmt can't tell the people in charge of windows defender to get bent or any other part of the platform that excessively consumes power. So that said, the P1's support linux, which means there is an option for S3 in the BIOS, flip it on, and run the windows task schduler/runon/etc features and kill anything that can wake the laptop. That should keep it from running the fans in your bag. There used to be an option in the windows power control panel to select the action for lid close too, if its still there, then set it to sleep (S3) or hibernate (S4).
      - goosedragons 4y ago
        I've been really happy with my P14s Gen 2 AMD. I don't understand the appeal of overly rigid metal laptops that dent. You have to really try to flex the P14s. Sleep works fine, I use S3 sleep. I haven't encountered it heat up and burn through battery in a bag like my old 2018 MBP did a couple times. Speakers and trackpad aren't great but I prefer the trackpoint and headphones work fine.
    - propogandist 4y ago
      I’ve been using thinkpad for over a decade and have noticed decline in quality on hardware and even firmware/software on the device. They have been regularly making the keyboard worse and it’s gotten down to 1.5mm of key travel or worse from about 2mm prior (1.8mm more recently). This is in addition to the chicklet keyboard style, which also sucks compared to the keyboard style they had before (W520 and older) It still has some of the best build quality overall, among PC manufacturers.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      The great IBM ThinkPad is dead, long live with ThinkPad. Still a bit better than other laptops.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Better avoid Android or ChromeOS as well then.

Which devices gave you such trouble?

quickthrower2 4y ago

Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13 Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.

propogandist 4y ago
A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.
- ta1243 4y ago
  People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid
  - vips7L 4y ago
    My current Thinkpad T14 is the best laptop I've ever used.
  - criddell 4y ago
    A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1. Maybe they are as solid as they’ve always been, but the bar has been raised and Lenovo, Intel, or Microsoft haven’t responded yet. There are a lot of smart people working on these problems and I’m hopeful that Intel will soon leapfrog Apple and fast, fanless Windows machines with 12+ hours of battery life will be available.
    - StillBored 4y ago
      My P1 isn't great either, largely due to the nvidia GPU consuming more power than anything else in the machine. But other lenovo laptops (with integrated GPUs, and AMD cpus) are pretty fantastic on the battery lifetime front. That said, I think the software stack these days has more to do with it than anything. As I mentioned in another comment its entirely possible to get the power consumption of AMD laptops into the 3-4W range with a modern linux kernel, light browsing, emacs, etc. And that is largely in my case due to assuring there aren't any background tasks consuming CPU time, and running powertop --autotune, assuring inactive HW is turned off when its not being used, cpus are spending most of their time in deep sleep, etc. All stuff that the mac is basically doing out of the box (or running background tasks on low power, etc cores). While I'm getting 15+ hours out of a fairly pedestrian 65Wh battery, which is pretty amazing since the screen and assorted devices (disk, ram, etc) are probably 1-2W of the total. Now all this goes to sh*t when I start running a compiler, or other CPU intensive work, but from my experience that happens on the M1 macs as well, which can get quite toasty and kill the battery life if left building software for an hour or more. Powertop, turbostat, cpupower are all useful diagnostic tools as well as disabling stuff in the BIOS, or powering stuff off (or at least into lower power modes) via the kernel/ACPI power methods. (presumably some of the more efficient intel might be good too if one clamps the CPU freq/etc I've just not tried one, but i'm pretty happy with a couple of their older generation i3/i5 desktop machines). Windows used to be reasonably good, but I get the feeling the new generation (modern standby anyone?) isn't as dedicated, and hence the machine isn't forced into a S3 like mode when the lid is closed. Combined with the apparently fragmented way the OS is built means the people in charge of power mgmt can't tell the people in charge of windows defender to get bent or any other part of the platform that excessively consumes power. So that said, the P1's support linux, which means there is an option for S3 in the BIOS, flip it on, and run the windows task schduler/runon/etc features and kill anything that can wake the laptop. That should keep it from running the fans in your bag. There used to be an option in the windows power control panel to select the action for lid close too, if its still there, then set it to sleep (S3) or hibernate (S4).
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      I've been really happy with my P14s Gen 2 AMD. I don't understand the appeal of overly rigid metal laptops that dent. You have to really try to flex the P14s. Sleep works fine, I use S3 sleep. I haven't encountered it heat up and burn through battery in a bag like my old 2018 MBP did a couple times. Speakers and trackpad aren't great but I prefer the trackpoint and headphones work fine.
  - propogandist 4y ago
    I’ve been using thinkpad for over a decade and have noticed decline in quality on hardware and even firmware/software on the device. They have been regularly making the keyboard worse and it’s gotten down to 1.5mm of key travel or worse from about 2mm prior (1.8mm more recently). This is in addition to the chicklet keyboard style, which also sucks compared to the keyboard style they had before (W520 and older) It still has some of the best build quality overall, among PC manufacturers.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    The great IBM ThinkPad is dead, long live with ThinkPad. Still a bit better than other laptops.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Better avoid Android or ChromeOS as well then.