5 ms·

I use iPhones for the “cuz it just works” factor, and with those M chips, I am tempted to make the switch from Windows PCs These days laptop PCs are unreliable

I use iPhones for the “cuz it just works” factor, and with those M chips, I am tempted to make the switch from Windows PCs These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome. Last 2 years over 2 devices: Broken screen (not due to external) Touchscreen not working Lid came apart Audio stops working while windows uodates pending Laptop stopped turning on With the latest device I got all the extended warrantees and accidental damage coverage as the pot odds made it worth paying 33% of the device price over 3 years.

teh_klev 4y ago
Which devices gave you such trouble?
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13 Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.
  - propogandist 4y ago
    A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.
    - ta1243 4y ago
      People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid
      - vips7L 4y ago
        My current Thinkpad T14 is the best laptop I've ever used.
      - criddell 4y ago
        A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1. Maybe they are as solid as they’ve always been, but the bar has been raised and Lenovo, Intel, or Microsoft haven’t responded yet. There are a lot of smart people working on these problems and I’m hopeful that Intel will soon leapfrog Apple and fast, fanless Windows machines with 12+ hours of battery life will be available.
        StillBored 4y ago
        My P1 isn't great either, largely due to the nvidia GPU consuming more power than anything else in the machine. But other lenovo laptops (with integrated GPUs, and AMD cpus) are pretty fantastic on the battery lifetime front. That said, I think the software stack these days has more to do with it than anything. As I mentioned in another comment its entirely possible to get the power consumption of AMD laptops into the 3-4W range with a modern linux kernel, light browsing, emacs, etc. And that is largely in my case due to assuring there aren't any background tasks consuming CPU time, and running powertop --autotune, assuring inactive HW is turned off when its not being used, cpus are spending most of their time in deep sleep, etc. All stuff that the mac is basically doing out of the box (or running background tasks on low power, etc cores). While I'm getting 15+ hours out of a fairly pedestrian 65Wh battery, which is pretty amazing since the screen and assorted devices (disk, ram, etc) are probably 1-2W of the total. Now all this goes to sh*t when I start running a compiler, or other CPU intensive work, but from my experience that happens on the M1 macs as well, which can get quite toasty and kill the battery life if left building software for an hour or more. Powertop, turbostat, cpupower are all useful diagnostic tools as well as disabling stuff in the BIOS, or powering stuff off (or at least into lower power modes) via the kernel/ACPI power methods. (presumably some of the more efficient intel might be good too if one clamps the CPU freq/etc I've just not tried one, but i'm pretty happy with a couple of their older generation i3/i5 desktop machines). Windows used to be reasonably good, but I get the feeling the new generation (modern standby anyone?) isn't as dedicated, and hence the machine isn't forced into a S3 like mode when the lid is closed. Combined with the apparently fragmented way the OS is built means the people in charge of power mgmt can't tell the people in charge of windows defender to get bent or any other part of the platform that excessively consumes power. So that said, the P1's support linux, which means there is an option for S3 in the BIOS, flip it on, and run the windows task schduler/runon/etc features and kill anything that can wake the laptop. That should keep it from running the fans in your bag. There used to be an option in the windows power control panel to select the action for lid close too, if its still there, then set it to sleep (S3) or hibernate (S4).
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Better avoid Android or ChromeOS as well then.
belltaco 4y ago
> These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome. That is true but Apple's OneDrive equivalent thing iCloud is the same way, they even show fake red notifications on program icons to make you sign into iCloud and use dark patterns to make you use iCloud. They don't push Safari as much but they've been stagnating it on purpose across all their products to protect their App Store revenue, which is quite the turn off. Apple's hardware can also have problems as evidenced on here and forums but overall might be better than a cheaper laptop, just like PC laptops. Anyway my two biggest reasons for not going with a MacBook were that I think a touchscreen should be a mandatory as an option in 2023(at least for tapping on links etc. if not multitouch) and being able to play specific FPS titles in a pinch(like in a hotel while traveling) which are not available on the Mac. I was able to get an OLED HDR touchscreen running at 120hz which is gorgeous.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  As an avid Windows wizard who strongly dislikes Apple, I will give credit where credit is due: Apple's shit Just Fucking Works(tm). Seriously, they just work. An M1 or M2 Macbook Air is the ideal laptop and computer for the vast majority of people. Games? There are game consoles for games, which also Just Fucking Work(tm).
  - mikhael28 4y ago
    You can also play a decent amount of games on M1 Macs, but nothing spectacular or amazing. They can emulate almost anything with DirectX 11, but 12 is just not operational in any way at all. Most emulators work swimmingly.
    - EricE 4y ago
      Crossover - a commercial implementation of WINE by CodeWeavers - is indeed amazing!
- whynotminot 4y ago
crossroadsguy 4y ago
Their hardware are quiet good and often worth cost. But their software are barely average and services (iCloud et al) downright pathetic. Definitely much worse than OneDrive which in itself it’s not great. I mean any data I have in iCloud I assume it’s gone — I don’t even consider it a safe copy of mu data. There’s barely any transparency around it (which is actually Apple’s DNA - lack of transparency in general).
- nickpp 4y ago
  I never lost data in iCloud - is this a common occurrence?
  - mikhael28 4y ago
    No, they just don't like Apple software and are looking for a reason to ding them. Which, fair, XCode is trash. If they don't think either service is great, they can just run a local media server or use dropbox. Apple doesn't force you to use iCloud, and I personally think it's less obtrusively advertised on the OS than OneDrive. Personally.
    - egypturnash 4y ago
      A lot of Apple's stuff Just Works but when it stops working it Just Stops Working, and it majorly sucks because there is so little in the way of diagnostics, buttons to force manual sync, etc. I say this as someone who has been using a Mac as their preferred system since the late nineties.
      - katbyte 4y ago
        Next time try opening “console” and looking at the logs. Usually it’s a deluge of logs but usually shows what is failing even if it doesn’t make sense as to why
    - crossroadsguy 4y ago
      What the hell! Never knew even hn had so many fruit company fans that took the company criticism that personally. As if iEvangelism wasn’t enough.

teh_klev 4y ago

Which devices gave you such trouble?

quickthrower2 4y ago
Lenovo Flex, Asus Vivobook, Dell XPS13 Desktops are a different breed. They last forever.
- propogandist 4y ago
  A thinkpad would offer great build quality, although some of that is slipping due to Lenovo’s cost cutting strategies. Unfortunately, today’s Windows OS is spyware, especially Windows 11, so the entire OS needs to be removed, if you want a good machine which fires not constantly send usage data to the Azure mothership, or some 3rd party.
  - ta1243 4y ago
    People have being lamenting the death of thinkpad for nearly 20 years. Lenovo purchase in 2005, keyboard changes in 2012, etc It's still here, and still solid
    - vips7L 4y ago
      My current Thinkpad T14 is the best laptop I've ever used.
    - criddell 4y ago
      A ThinkPad running Windows is not solid compared to a recent MacBook running macOS. Part of it is due to Lenovo (plastic case that flexes, crappy trackpad, terrible speakers, etc…), part is Intel’s fault (CPU that runs hot and uses a lot of power) and part is due to Windows (a weird sleep mode that has the fan spinning even when the machine is closed and in a bag). This is all from my experience with a recent P1. Maybe they are as solid as they’ve always been, but the bar has been raised and Lenovo, Intel, or Microsoft haven’t responded yet. There are a lot of smart people working on these problems and I’m hopeful that Intel will soon leapfrog Apple and fast, fanless Windows machines with 12+ hours of battery life will be available.
      - StillBored 4y ago
        My P1 isn't great either, largely due to the nvidia GPU consuming more power than anything else in the machine. But other lenovo laptops (with integrated GPUs, and AMD cpus) are pretty fantastic on the battery lifetime front. That said, I think the software stack these days has more to do with it than anything. As I mentioned in another comment its entirely possible to get the power consumption of AMD laptops into the 3-4W range with a modern linux kernel, light browsing, emacs, etc. And that is largely in my case due to assuring there aren't any background tasks consuming CPU time, and running powertop --autotune, assuring inactive HW is turned off when its not being used, cpus are spending most of their time in deep sleep, etc. All stuff that the mac is basically doing out of the box (or running background tasks on low power, etc cores). While I'm getting 15+ hours out of a fairly pedestrian 65Wh battery, which is pretty amazing since the screen and assorted devices (disk, ram, etc) are probably 1-2W of the total. Now all this goes to sh*t when I start running a compiler, or other CPU intensive work, but from my experience that happens on the M1 macs as well, which can get quite toasty and kill the battery life if left building software for an hour or more. Powertop, turbostat, cpupower are all useful diagnostic tools as well as disabling stuff in the BIOS, or powering stuff off (or at least into lower power modes) via the kernel/ACPI power methods. (presumably some of the more efficient intel might be good too if one clamps the CPU freq/etc I've just not tried one, but i'm pretty happy with a couple of their older generation i3/i5 desktop machines). Windows used to be reasonably good, but I get the feeling the new generation (modern standby anyone?) isn't as dedicated, and hence the machine isn't forced into a S3 like mode when the lid is closed. Combined with the apparently fragmented way the OS is built means the people in charge of power mgmt can't tell the people in charge of windows defender to get bent or any other part of the platform that excessively consumes power. So that said, the P1's support linux, which means there is an option for S3 in the BIOS, flip it on, and run the windows task schduler/runon/etc features and kill anything that can wake the laptop. That should keep it from running the fans in your bag. There used to be an option in the windows power control panel to select the action for lid close too, if its still there, then set it to sleep (S3) or hibernate (S4).
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Better avoid Android or ChromeOS as well then.

belltaco 4y ago

> These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome. That is true but Apple's OneDrive equivalent thing iCloud is the same way, they even show fake red notifications on program icons to make you sign into iCloud and use dark patterns to make you use iCloud. They don't push Safari as much but they've been stagnating it on purpose across all their products to protect their App Store revenue, which is quite the turn off. Apple's hardware can also have problems as evidenced on here and forums but overall might be better than a cheaper laptop, just like PC laptops. Anyway my two biggest reasons for not going with a MacBook were that I think a touchscreen should be a mandatory as an option in 2023(at least for tapping on links etc. if not multitouch) and being able to play specific FPS titles in a pinch(like in a hotel while traveling) which are not available on the Mac. I was able to get an OLED HDR touchscreen running at 120hz which is gorgeous.

Dalewyn 4y ago
As an avid Windows wizard who strongly dislikes Apple, I will give credit where credit is due: Apple's shit Just Fucking Works(tm). Seriously, they just work. An M1 or M2 Macbook Air is the ideal laptop and computer for the vast majority of people. Games? There are game consoles for games, which also Just Fucking Work(tm).
- mikhael28 4y ago
  You can also play a decent amount of games on M1 Macs, but nothing spectacular or amazing. They can emulate almost anything with DirectX 11, but 12 is just not operational in any way at all. Most emulators work swimmingly.
  - EricE 4y ago
    Crossover - a commercial implementation of WINE by CodeWeavers - is indeed amazing!
whynotminot 4y ago

crossroadsguy 4y ago

Their hardware are quiet good and often worth cost. But their software are barely average and services (iCloud et al) downright pathetic. Definitely much worse than OneDrive which in itself it’s not great. I mean any data I have in iCloud I assume it’s gone — I don’t even consider it a safe copy of mu data. There’s barely any transparency around it (which is actually Apple’s DNA - lack of transparency in general).

nickpp 4y ago
I never lost data in iCloud - is this a common occurrence?
- mikhael28 4y ago
  No, they just don't like Apple software and are looking for a reason to ding them. Which, fair, XCode is trash. If they don't think either service is great, they can just run a local media server or use dropbox. Apple doesn't force you to use iCloud, and I personally think it's less obtrusively advertised on the OS than OneDrive. Personally.
  - egypturnash 4y ago
    A lot of Apple's stuff Just Works but when it stops working it Just Stops Working, and it majorly sucks because there is so little in the way of diagnostics, buttons to force manual sync, etc. I say this as someone who has been using a Mac as their preferred system since the late nineties.
    - katbyte 4y ago
      Next time try opening “console” and looking at the logs. Usually it’s a deluge of logs but usually shows what is failing even if it doesn’t make sense as to why
  - crossroadsguy 4y ago
    What the hell! Never knew even hn had so many fruit company fans that took the company criticism that personally. As if iEvangelism wasn’t enough.