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Australia also has a remarkable tax incentive that lets you buy EVs basically tax free (fringe benefits tax exemption for novated leases, in bureaucratese). Ba

Australia also has a remarkable tax incentive that lets you buy EVs basically tax free (fringe benefits tax exemption for novated leases, in bureaucratese). Basically, instead of paying $70k for a Tesla post-tax, you can get it deducted directly from your paycheck for around $45k pretax. The exact math depends on your income, and perversely enough the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes, but it has definitely been effective at turbocharging EV sales in a country that was otherwise a comparative laggard (only 3.8% of new sales in 2022, before the incentive kicked in).

gkanai 4y ago
> perversely enough the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes Isn't this because those who are going to buy EVs today (which are premium if not luxury vehicle prices) are those who have more money to do so? There is not yet a widely available entry level priced EV that is broadly popular.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  no, its because in a higher tax braket you pay more tax its the sane in britain - if you earn $200,000 income-tax-free means 50% off, but if you earn $20,000. it means like 5% off Also in Uk id you want to buy a e car, you get a grant of a few grand, if you want an e motorbike you get like $300, and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off
  - irjustin 4y ago
    Should it be a refund (instead of a tax break)? I'm leaning towards the refund since it effectively gives everyone the "same final price"
    - jpgvm 4y ago
      Probably, but this is Australia we are talking about. It's a literal boomer welfare state. Ok maybe a little bit of hyperbole but not that far off the mark, fiscal policy in Australia is dominated by preferential treatment for the boomer generations finances. Ideally we would provide incentives in the form of a refund for all vehicles below a net carbon value per km (so including plugin hybrids, etc) that are priced below a given value, say $40k AUD or something, whatever is actually affordable mid-range car (not sure about specific numbers). The idea is that hybrids are probably going to be at a disadvantage unless they are insanely efficient, BEVs will need to bring prices down to qualify for the incentive and generally speaking we end up with drastically more efficient -and- cheaper cars as a result. However it's also not a great look if all the boomers are buying 911s instead of Model S/X etc so may as well drop the luxury car tax for full BEV vehicles so gas guzzlers are at a disadvantage across the spectrum.
      - kwhitefoot 4y ago
        In Norway we simply removed all taxes from battery EVs. Last year 80% of new cars sold were pure EVs. The plan is to ban new ICE car sales in 2025 but the law has not been passed yet as far as I know. But because the market is already so dominated by BEVs there is probably no need to rush.
    - IanCal 4y ago
      Not for the goal in the UK. The UK doesn't have a tax break for buying electric cars as regular people at home, it's for companies. The important tax break more specifically is around providing them to workers under what's called a "salary sacrifice" scheme where you forgo some of your income in return for a benefit in kind. The BIK rate for EVs is very low, meaning they're almost tax free. This is targeting people who get new cars under hire agreements, drive them for a few years then get a new one - the goal is to increase the second hand market. also > its the sane in britain - if you earn $200,000 income-tax-free means 50% off, but if you earn $20,000. it means like 5% off For SS schemes the person earning £20k would be paying a marginal rate of 32%. Most people earning more than this have a marginal rate of 42%, then frankly the figures get complicated to explain but it's a very small minority of people that hit those levels.
      - Reason077 4y ago
        > *"The UK doesn't have a tax break for buying electric cars as regular people at home" Not exactly true. Besides company car tax (BIK) benefits, electric vehicles are exempt from vehicle excise duty, which can save up to £4000 over the first 5 years of vehicle ownership. They are also exempt from congestion charges, low emission zone charges, etc, which can save thousands more. There's also no fuel duty on charging an EV, you only pay 5% VAT on electricity if charging at home, many local councils offer discounted parking and/or charging, and there is a grant available that pays 75% of the cost of installing a home charger.
  - megablast 4y ago
    > and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off The most eco friendly option is still a bike. Not an ebike.
    - denimnerd42 4y ago
      is something not used the most eco friendly option?
      - qu4z-2 4y ago
        What is and isn't used comes down to the person, so it's pretty hard to factor in. Certainly in my city most bikes I see people out and abouton are not electric.
    - snovv_crash 4y ago
      Depends. If you ride a lot, ebikes are actually more eco-friendly, because electricity is more carbon friendly to produce than the extra calories you'd eat.
      - hytdstd 4y ago
        There's an interesting blog post about this topic: https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog/climate-impacts-biking-vs-driving https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog/climate-impacts-biking-v...
      - mjevans 4y ago
        Your theory is worth discussing. While in an absolute instant sense energy use might win for the machine, you probably forgot to factor in the lifetime cost of the production of the machine's components. I do not blame you as such a task seems exhaustively daunting, and we only ignore it for the people because who would be heartless enough to think that way? (probably insurance agents, lawyers, and such...) There are also pros and cons to the different elements. Exercise on a bike might have a hard to measure benefit compared to an e-bike. On the other hand adoption pressures and increased hygiene needs are more positive and negative side effects.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off That's absolutely not correct, the tax subsidy for buying bikes and ebikes in this country is bonkers and better than pretty much anywhere else. If you have any job you can always buy any bike(including an ebike) through the cycle to work scheme meaning it's deducted from your salary pre-tax (meaning that effectively it's a deduction from your own income tax).
    - cjrp 4y ago
      Exactly, with no benefit in kind (unlike an EV which attracts 2% at the moment and increases by 1%/year from 2025).
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > That's absolutely not correct, the tax subsidy for buying bikes and ebikes in this country is bonkers and better than pretty much anywhere else. Have you actually tried using it? Four problems: 1 - The bicycle belongs to your employer, and when it's ownership is formally transferred to you, you have to pay tax on it. 2 - The 'cycle Scheme' is implemented separately by each major bike shop running their own scheme, Halfords runs Cycle2Work, Evans runs Ride to work. Your employer signs up to one or the other. If you are on Cycle2Work you can't but from Halfords 3 - If you want something that's not in Halfords, like a specific seat you like or a Bafang Conversion kit, then you have to go to independent shops that are 'in network'. Halfords charges 15% commission, and Evans charges 10% 4 - Employers set random limits, for example my employer does not allow over 1K spend, so you can't buy a decent ebike
      - gambiting 4y ago
        I have. We have an ebike that was £2200 brand new, and it was effectively a 100% tax deduction. And yes there are some restrictions around it but they are easy to work with. I have no comment about employers setting their own limits, that's just dumb.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
GenerWork 4y ago
> the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes What's the name of this law called that does this? Seems like quite the oversight.
- 22c 4y ago
  It's not a law, it's math. Anything that comes out of pretax income is a bigger incentive (dollar-wise) for those who have a higher tax rate.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    math is law! :)
- manquer 4y ago
  That is true for a lot of government schemes that work with credits , you need to have taxable income to benefit from tax credits , so higher income means more benefits up to a point
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  > What's the name of this law It's a consequence of progressive tax rates. Last year in the United States, for example, no matter how large your salary was, a single person's income tax rate for the first $10,000 of salary you earned was 10%. The portion of your salary above that $10,000 is taxed at a higher rate, and as you cross salary amount thresholds (called tax brackets) the tax rate keeps getting increasing for the amount above that threshold. By the time you get up above the $540,000, the portion of your salary above that $540,000 is taxed at the maximum 37% rate. So if you purchase a big ticket item that is deducted from your salary before they figure out how much taxes you owe, high earners can save quite a bit.
  - lh7777 4y ago
    In the US, this is accurate for other clean energy incentives, but EVs get a $7500 tax credit rather than a tax deduction so the benefit doesn’t depend on tax rate. The credit is not available for incomes over $150k (single) or $300k (married filing jointly), but the credit is also non-refundable, which means it can only reduce your tax to zero. If your total tax is < $7500, you don’t get the rest back as a refund. This means that, for example, married couples earning less than ~$95k don’t get the full credit.
grecy 4y ago
Do you have a link to this tax incentive? When did it come in?
- loun 4y ago
  Here it is from the ATO: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars,-other-vehicles,-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption/ https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of... It came into effect a few months ago, but was back dated to 1 July 2022.
  - JellyYelly 4y ago
    I think the original comment is misleading. As far as I can tell you need your employer to buy the EV for you; and then they don't have to pay Fringe Benefits Tax on it. This might benefit people who get a "company car" but I don't know of anyone who has gotten a fringe benefit as large as a car from their employer before. I don't doubt it happens but I doubt it helps anyone except employees and employers who could comfortably afford the tax to begin with. I'm not a tax expert so I could be completely misunderstanding this though.
    - sjy 4y ago
      It’s common – you accept a reduced salary in exchange for the fringe benefit. It works particularly well for FBT-exempt employers like charities and state health departments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_packaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_packaging
    - grecy 4y ago
      It also requires the vehicle to NOT be subject to Luxury Car Tax ... which many longer range EVs are.
    - rippercushions 4y ago
      No, it's very common and there are companies that exist to provide this as a service, just look up "novated lease".
paranoidrobot 4y ago
Have you got any info on this? Last I heard EVs were getting made even more expensive due to the luxury car tax. (Which, yes you get a partial discount on for EVs, but even still, a reduced additional tax is still an additional tax)
- chucky123 4y ago
  A tesla base model is 60k, which is just below the luxury tax. If you purchase this car, you'll get all the ev tax benefits without the luxury tax downsides.
nasmorn 4y ago
In Austria we have much the same but luxury car limit has been 40k since like 2 decades. Which is an utter joke in 2023 because you can buy like 3 EVs under 40k list price.
- KeplerBoy 4y ago
  We do? Isn't this only a thing for corporate vehicles?
  - nasmorn 4y ago
    Yes sorry but the company can very favorably provide the vehicle to employees without the employee getting taxed on the benefit at all. If you look at the new car market at relevant price points most potential buyers (self employed and people with generous salaries) have access to the scheme.
cyclotron3k 4y ago
Shame the infrastructure is so lacking, and the Victorian government have a road tax specifically for EVs
- ilyt 4y ago
  Well, they ain't paying tax for fuel, roads have to be fixed for something...
  - ehnto 4y ago
    Fuel excises do not get allocated directly to some kind of "road budget", they go into general revene. Almost all of it can be accounted for in corresponding fuel tax credits, three quarters of which go to mining companies. From memory the difference in 2019 census was like 100mil, so 7.8billion came in from fuel excise, 7.7billion went back out in fuel tax credits. In essence, everyone pays for federal roads, road user or not, and municipalities pay for local roads. Except for larger state funded projects, which often receive federal assistance. Fuel taxes are a trivial component to infrastructure upkeep, is my understanding. Another myth is that vehicle registration pays for roads, vehicle registration goes entirely to running the vehicle registration apparatus, that's all.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      The point is that people using are paying that. We dont have fuel tax credit here (Poland) so > 7.8billion came in from fuel excise, 7.7billion went back out in fuel tax credits. just seems like pointless excercise in bureaucracy...
    - Reason077 4y ago
      > “Fuel taxes are a trivial component to infrastructure upkeep, is my understanding.” If that’s true, Australia needs to think about raising its fuel/vehicle taxes! In the UK, the opposite is true: direct fuel and vehicle taxes raise 3-4X more revenue than is spent on roads annually[1] [1] In 2021/22, £11.8 billion was spent on UK local and national roads, vs £28 billion raised from fuel duty and £7.1 billion from vehicle excise duty.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
The Dutch tax incentives were quite attractive, especially on lease cars, but it's been (being) dialed way back because it's costing the government too much income.
lnxg33k1 4y ago
Imagine if all those public money could be spent on improving public transportation instead of in some rich pockets
aakresearch 4y ago
Where is this fairy country Australia? Living at the western fringe of Greater Melbourne, any charging infrastructure is invisible here, I'm not sure it exists. And $45k or $70k alike both look incredibly expensive to me, I would never find a reason to justify such a purchase. Perhaps going to consider a second-hand deal when the price is below $10k and age is over 10 years, provided the longevity of the battery would look good for the next 10 years and there are "wagon" options on the market. Honestly cannot understand who are those subsidies for. Recently I witnessed a few times a scene on a parking lot, which appeared to me as a group of overjoyed young people congratulating their happy mate about acquisition of a new ride (invariably a fancy Shelby Mustang or a mean-looking BMW, and invariably on their Ps) - you know, sniffing under the car, patting (the car and the lucky owner) on all surfaces, marveling from all distances. Laughing and selfying. The average age within all those groups, to my judgement, was around 16yo, so I highly doubt they could make full use of Salary Sacrifice incentive. And families like mine will always consider paying for a new car a complete waste. Going "carless" is also absolutely not an option, so if we must spend we're looking for maximum value and minimum outlay.
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  > Where is this fairy country Australia? Living at the western fringe of Greater Melbourne, any charging infrastructure is invisible here, I'm not sure it exists. There's plenty of options, check out PlugShare. Most people however charge at home - power into a garage or carport is pretty commonplace, and no special equipment is required. > And $45k or $70k alike both look incredibly expensive to me, I would never find a reason to justify such a purchase. $45k sounds high until you do the maths on petrol and servicing savings per annum. Depending on your lifestyle, distance travelled per year, access to free charging (solar, shops, etc) you can save $30-60k in fuel over the 10 years of warranty the battery pack has. > And families like mine will always consider paying for a new car a complete waste. Going "carless" is also absolutely not an option, so if we must spend we're looking for maximum value and minimum outlay. It's worth sitting down and doing the maths. You might be surprised the value proposition once you do it.

gkanai 4y ago

> perversely enough the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes Isn't this because those who are going to buy EVs today (which are premium if not luxury vehicle prices) are those who have more money to do so? There is not yet a widely available entry level priced EV that is broadly popular.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
no, its because in a higher tax braket you pay more tax its the sane in britain - if you earn $200,000 income-tax-free means 50% off, but if you earn $20,000. it means like 5% off Also in Uk id you want to buy a e car, you get a grant of a few grand, if you want an e motorbike you get like $300, and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off
- irjustin 4y ago
  Should it be a refund (instead of a tax break)? I'm leaning towards the refund since it effectively gives everyone the "same final price"
  - jpgvm 4y ago
    Probably, but this is Australia we are talking about. It's a literal boomer welfare state. Ok maybe a little bit of hyperbole but not that far off the mark, fiscal policy in Australia is dominated by preferential treatment for the boomer generations finances. Ideally we would provide incentives in the form of a refund for all vehicles below a net carbon value per km (so including plugin hybrids, etc) that are priced below a given value, say $40k AUD or something, whatever is actually affordable mid-range car (not sure about specific numbers). The idea is that hybrids are probably going to be at a disadvantage unless they are insanely efficient, BEVs will need to bring prices down to qualify for the incentive and generally speaking we end up with drastically more efficient -and- cheaper cars as a result. However it's also not a great look if all the boomers are buying 911s instead of Model S/X etc so may as well drop the luxury car tax for full BEV vehicles so gas guzzlers are at a disadvantage across the spectrum.
    - kwhitefoot 4y ago
      In Norway we simply removed all taxes from battery EVs. Last year 80% of new cars sold were pure EVs. The plan is to ban new ICE car sales in 2025 but the law has not been passed yet as far as I know. But because the market is already so dominated by BEVs there is probably no need to rush.
  - IanCal 4y ago
    Not for the goal in the UK. The UK doesn't have a tax break for buying electric cars as regular people at home, it's for companies. The important tax break more specifically is around providing them to workers under what's called a "salary sacrifice" scheme where you forgo some of your income in return for a benefit in kind. The BIK rate for EVs is very low, meaning they're almost tax free. This is targeting people who get new cars under hire agreements, drive them for a few years then get a new one - the goal is to increase the second hand market. also > its the sane in britain - if you earn $200,000 income-tax-free means 50% off, but if you earn $20,000. it means like 5% off For SS schemes the person earning £20k would be paying a marginal rate of 32%. Most people earning more than this have a marginal rate of 42%, then frankly the figures get complicated to explain but it's a very small minority of people that hit those levels.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      > *"The UK doesn't have a tax break for buying electric cars as regular people at home" Not exactly true. Besides company car tax (BIK) benefits, electric vehicles are exempt from vehicle excise duty, which can save up to £4000 over the first 5 years of vehicle ownership. They are also exempt from congestion charges, low emission zone charges, etc, which can save thousands more. There's also no fuel duty on charging an EV, you only pay 5% VAT on electricity if charging at home, many local councils offer discounted parking and/or charging, and there is a grant available that pays 75% of the cost of installing a home charger.
- megablast 4y ago
  > and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off The most eco friendly option is still a bike. Not an ebike.
  - denimnerd42 4y ago
    is something not used the most eco friendly option?
    - qu4z-2 4y ago
      What is and isn't used comes down to the person, so it's pretty hard to factor in. Certainly in my city most bikes I see people out and abouton are not electric.
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    Depends. If you ride a lot, ebikes are actually more eco-friendly, because electricity is more carbon friendly to produce than the extra calories you'd eat.
    - hytdstd 4y ago
      There's an interesting blog post about this topic: https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog/climate-impacts-biking-vs-driving https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/blog/climate-impacts-biking-v...
    - mjevans 4y ago
      Your theory is worth discussing. While in an absolute instant sense energy use might win for the machine, you probably forgot to factor in the lifetime cost of the production of the machine's components. I do not blame you as such a task seems exhaustively daunting, and we only ignore it for the people because who would be heartless enough to think that way? (probably insurance agents, lawyers, and such...) There are also pros and cons to the different elements. Exercise on a bike might have a hard to measure benefit compared to an e-bike. On the other hand adoption pressures and increased hygiene needs are more positive and negative side effects.
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>and if you want an ebike, the most wco friwndly option, you fuck right off That's absolutely not correct, the tax subsidy for buying bikes and ebikes in this country is bonkers and better than pretty much anywhere else. If you have any job you can always buy any bike(including an ebike) through the cycle to work scheme meaning it's deducted from your salary pre-tax (meaning that effectively it's a deduction from your own income tax).
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Exactly, with no benefit in kind (unlike an EV which attracts 2% at the moment and increases by 1%/year from 2025).
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > That's absolutely not correct, the tax subsidy for buying bikes and ebikes in this country is bonkers and better than pretty much anywhere else. Have you actually tried using it? Four problems: 1 - The bicycle belongs to your employer, and when it's ownership is formally transferred to you, you have to pay tax on it. 2 - The 'cycle Scheme' is implemented separately by each major bike shop running their own scheme, Halfords runs Cycle2Work, Evans runs Ride to work. Your employer signs up to one or the other. If you are on Cycle2Work you can't but from Halfords 3 - If you want something that's not in Halfords, like a specific seat you like or a Bafang Conversion kit, then you have to go to independent shops that are 'in network'. Halfords charges 15% commission, and Evans charges 10% 4 - Employers set random limits, for example my employer does not allow over 1K spend, so you can't buy a decent ebike
    - gambiting 4y ago
      I have. We have an ebike that was £2200 brand new, and it was effectively a 100% tax deduction. And yes there are some restrictions around it but they are easy to work with. I have no comment about employers setting their own limits, that's just dumb.
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago

GenerWork 4y ago

> the subsidy increases the more you earn and the higher your taxes What's the name of this law called that does this? Seems like quite the oversight.

22c 4y ago
It's not a law, it's math. Anything that comes out of pretax income is a bigger incentive (dollar-wise) for those who have a higher tax rate.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  math is law! :)
manquer 4y ago
That is true for a lot of government schemes that work with credits , you need to have taxable income to benefit from tax credits , so higher income means more benefits up to a point
GeekyBear 4y ago
> What's the name of this law It's a consequence of progressive tax rates. Last year in the United States, for example, no matter how large your salary was, a single person's income tax rate for the first $10,000 of salary you earned was 10%. The portion of your salary above that $10,000 is taxed at a higher rate, and as you cross salary amount thresholds (called tax brackets) the tax rate keeps getting increasing for the amount above that threshold. By the time you get up above the $540,000, the portion of your salary above that $540,000 is taxed at the maximum 37% rate. So if you purchase a big ticket item that is deducted from your salary before they figure out how much taxes you owe, high earners can save quite a bit.
- lh7777 4y ago
  In the US, this is accurate for other clean energy incentives, but EVs get a $7500 tax credit rather than a tax deduction so the benefit doesn’t depend on tax rate. The credit is not available for incomes over $150k (single) or $300k (married filing jointly), but the credit is also non-refundable, which means it can only reduce your tax to zero. If your total tax is < $7500, you don’t get the rest back as a refund. This means that, for example, married couples earning less than ~$95k don’t get the full credit.

grecy 4y ago

Do you have a link to this tax incentive? When did it come in?

loun 4y ago
Here it is from the ATO: https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars,-other-vehicles,-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption/ https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of... It came into effect a few months ago, but was back dated to 1 July 2022.
- JellyYelly 4y ago
  I think the original comment is misleading. As far as I can tell you need your employer to buy the EV for you; and then they don't have to pay Fringe Benefits Tax on it. This might benefit people who get a "company car" but I don't know of anyone who has gotten a fringe benefit as large as a car from their employer before. I don't doubt it happens but I doubt it helps anyone except employees and employers who could comfortably afford the tax to begin with. I'm not a tax expert so I could be completely misunderstanding this though.
  - sjy 4y ago
    It’s common – you accept a reduced salary in exchange for the fringe benefit. It works particularly well for FBT-exempt employers like charities and state health departments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_packaging https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_packaging
  - grecy 4y ago
    It also requires the vehicle to NOT be subject to Luxury Car Tax ... which many longer range EVs are.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    No, it's very common and there are companies that exist to provide this as a service, just look up "novated lease".

paranoidrobot 4y ago

Have you got any info on this? Last I heard EVs were getting made even more expensive due to the luxury car tax. (Which, yes you get a partial discount on for EVs, but even still, a reduced additional tax is still an additional tax)

chucky123 4y ago
A tesla base model is 60k, which is just below the luxury tax. If you purchase this car, you'll get all the ev tax benefits without the luxury tax downsides.

nasmorn 4y ago

In Austria we have much the same but luxury car limit has been 40k since like 2 decades. Which is an utter joke in 2023 because you can buy like 3 EVs under 40k list price.

KeplerBoy 4y ago
We do? Isn't this only a thing for corporate vehicles?
- nasmorn 4y ago
  Yes sorry but the company can very favorably provide the vehicle to employees without the employee getting taxed on the benefit at all. If you look at the new car market at relevant price points most potential buyers (self employed and people with generous salaries) have access to the scheme.

cyclotron3k 4y ago

Shame the infrastructure is so lacking, and the Victorian government have a road tax specifically for EVs

ilyt 4y ago
Well, they ain't paying tax for fuel, roads have to be fixed for something...
- ehnto 4y ago
  Fuel excises do not get allocated directly to some kind of "road budget", they go into general revene. Almost all of it can be accounted for in corresponding fuel tax credits, three quarters of which go to mining companies. From memory the difference in 2019 census was like 100mil, so 7.8billion came in from fuel excise, 7.7billion went back out in fuel tax credits. In essence, everyone pays for federal roads, road user or not, and municipalities pay for local roads. Except for larger state funded projects, which often receive federal assistance. Fuel taxes are a trivial component to infrastructure upkeep, is my understanding. Another myth is that vehicle registration pays for roads, vehicle registration goes entirely to running the vehicle registration apparatus, that's all.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    The point is that people using are paying that. We dont have fuel tax credit here (Poland) so > 7.8billion came in from fuel excise, 7.7billion went back out in fuel tax credits. just seems like pointless excercise in bureaucracy...
  - Reason077 4y ago
    > “Fuel taxes are a trivial component to infrastructure upkeep, is my understanding.” If that’s true, Australia needs to think about raising its fuel/vehicle taxes! In the UK, the opposite is true: direct fuel and vehicle taxes raise 3-4X more revenue than is spent on roads annually[1] [1] In 2021/22, £11.8 billion was spent on UK local and national roads, vs £28 billion raised from fuel duty and £7.1 billion from vehicle excise duty.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

The Dutch tax incentives were quite attractive, especially on lease cars, but it's been (being) dialed way back because it's costing the government too much income.

lnxg33k1 4y ago

Imagine if all those public money could be spent on improving public transportation instead of in some rich pockets

aakresearch 4y ago

Where is this fairy country Australia? Living at the western fringe of Greater Melbourne, any charging infrastructure is invisible here, I'm not sure it exists. And $45k or $70k alike both look incredibly expensive to me, I would never find a reason to justify such a purchase. Perhaps going to consider a second-hand deal when the price is below $10k and age is over 10 years, provided the longevity of the battery would look good for the next 10 years and there are "wagon" options on the market. Honestly cannot understand who are those subsidies for. Recently I witnessed a few times a scene on a parking lot, which appeared to me as a group of overjoyed young people congratulating their happy mate about acquisition of a new ride (invariably a fancy Shelby Mustang or a mean-looking BMW, and invariably on their Ps) - you know, sniffing under the car, patting (the car and the lucky owner) on all surfaces, marveling from all distances. Laughing and selfying. The average age within all those groups, to my judgement, was around 16yo, so I highly doubt they could make full use of Salary Sacrifice incentive. And families like mine will always consider paying for a new car a complete waste. Going "carless" is also absolutely not an option, so if we must spend we're looking for maximum value and minimum outlay.

TheHappyOddish 4y ago
> Where is this fairy country Australia? Living at the western fringe of Greater Melbourne, any charging infrastructure is invisible here, I'm not sure it exists. There's plenty of options, check out PlugShare. Most people however charge at home - power into a garage or carport is pretty commonplace, and no special equipment is required. > And $45k or $70k alike both look incredibly expensive to me, I would never find a reason to justify such a purchase. $45k sounds high until you do the maths on petrol and servicing savings per annum. Depending on your lifestyle, distance travelled per year, access to free charging (solar, shops, etc) you can save $30-60k in fuel over the 10 years of warranty the battery pack has. > And families like mine will always consider paying for a new car a complete waste. Going "carless" is also absolutely not an option, so if we must spend we're looking for maximum value and minimum outlay. It's worth sitting down and doing the maths. You might be surprised the value proposition once you do it.