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What's interesting here is that it's not really affecting the perception of people who believe in web3. As someone who's working on a decentralized product, I

What's interesting here is that it's not really affecting the perception of people who believe in web3. As someone who's working on a decentralized product, I speak with nft creators and collectors every day. They see this as a confirmation that Meta wasn't really in. There was also a perception that Polygon NFTs aren't as valuable. Interestingly, Reddit has managed to sell Polygon based profile pictures fine, and there is a healthy market for their avatars.

RobotToaster 4y ago
>Reddit has managed to sell Polygon based profile pictures fine, That probably has more to do with selling the digital equivalent of funko pops on reddit, than any technological merit.
- DANmode 4y ago
  But it does bring up the ever-fascinating schism between what we as technologists think is required for a new technology to begin experiencing adoption. and what that bar actually is for consumers and corps.
himinlomax 4y ago
Just look what happened to doomsday cults when the doomsday clock ran out and no doom occured: some members left, dejected, and those who stayed doubled down in fervor.
- 3np 4y ago
  More like, there have been enough boom/bust cycles by now that many are taking a recovery and future upside for granted.
pavlov 4y ago
> “What's interesting here is that it's not really affecting the perception of people who believe in web3.” I think that’s the definition of belief: it’s not derived from facts so it can’t be shaken by evidence.
- nverno 4y ago
  Faith would probably better describe that condition, a very steadfast form of belief.
- baremetal 4y ago
  not all beliefs are non-factual.[1] [1]https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
  - nemosaltat 4y ago
    And not all “true beliefs” are based on fact. [1] >At first sight we might imagine that knowledge could be defined as 'true belief'. When what we believe is true, it might be supposed that we had achieved a knowledge of what we believe. But this would not accord with the way in which the word is commonly used. To take a very trivial instance: If a man believes that the late Prime Minister's last name began with a B, he believes what is true, since the late Prime Minister was Sir Henry Campbell Bannerman. But if he believes that Mr. Balfour was the late Prime Minister, he will still believe that the late Prime Minister's last name began with a B, yet this belief, though true, would not be thought to constitute knowledge. [1] THE PROBLEMS OF PHILOSOPHY https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm#link2HCH0008 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm#link2...
KyeRussell 4y ago
Reddit’s successful feature enjoys its success for reasons that have nothing to do with NFTs or crypto or the blockchain or whatever else.
- cableshaft 4y ago
  In that same fashion, the Pokemon collector craze is successful in a way that has nothing to do with them being on physical cards. It would be successful in other form factors as well. Collectors like to collect, no matter the medium. I have a large collection of both physical and digital-only games. Many of those digital games aren't anything more than an entry in a database table that says my steam id is allowed to download and play the files associated with a particular game id, at least until I actually play them. And yet I've probably spent $12k+ on Steam games over the past decade. Hell, probably $5k at least were spent on games I never even got around to actually playing, effectively just giving free money to Valve.
  - winphone1974 4y ago
    I don't understand how this can be a valid comparison, unless you bought games planning to never play them, just check them off against your list? That seems like a very minor use case. This would be like people saying they "collect" Kindle books or itunes music. Collecting is based on the idea of scarcity, either real or contrived, and digital plus not even owning the object makes that both impossible to be true and near impossible to pretend.
    - cableshaft 4y ago
      It's not a minor use case. According to Forbes[1], 37% of all games purchased on Steam never get played. Collecting definitely doesn't have to be based on scarcity. Board games aren't scarce (some are long out of print and rare, yes, but most aren't) yet I know people with vast collections (I myself have about 500 board games, and only maybe 3 or 4 are rare enough to be worth any significant money beyond its retail price). If 500 games is not a collection, then what would you call it? 500 board games isn't even necessarily a lot for a collector (it is for me, as I don't have the space to store them anymore and need to sell like 200 of them, but yet I keep compulsively buying new games anyway, I bought 2 more just this past week). I know another guy in my area that has over 2000 board games in his basement. And I (and many other board game collectors) don't play the games anywhere near as much as we buy them. We may justify the purchase with 'oh this would be good for this group someday' but mainly it's just an excuse to get it onto our shelves. Before I started playing board games solo, I'd say about 80% of the games I bought I hadn't played since I bought them, sitting on the shelf (for years) for the possible right board game night in the future for them to be played. Or I played the game since, but someone else's copy, since between my friends we often have 2-5 copies amongst us. Now I mostly buy games I can play solo, and I've played a good chunk of my new purchases the past two years at least once. Buying yet never playing is so common in board games, in fact, that there's a term for those unplayed games: 'The Shelf of Shame'[2] [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-of-all-registered-steam-games-have-never-been-played/?sh=5b6d49a12146 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-o... [2]: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2199795/lets-stop-calling-it-shelf-shame https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2199795/lets-stop-calling-i...
theK 4y ago
I think there are two issues at play in the current NFT space, both exacerbated by the get-rich-quick potential of NFTs 1. NFTs as ownership standards are not there yet. Even on ETH, there are significant compatibility issues between NFT minters and discussion about downsides of the diverse storage architectures and ownership systems. 2. Classical business is still in flailing hands mode when it comes to adoption of decentralized tech, be it collectibles or more serious stuff. I am happy we are having a winter now and I hope this one will last a while so that the true builders in this space will get the time they need to actually sort stuff out, build much needed infrastructure and for traditional businesses to read up a bit.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > true builders in this space That's a lot of belief riding on there being "true builders".
  - theK 4y ago
    What do you mean?
    - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
      That no such thing exists and the space is a top to bottom grifting scamfest.
      - theK 4y ago
        I don't think that this view can withstand any sort of scrutiny...
        Our_Benefactors 4y ago
        I think that it can, given articles like this showing that established profitable companies are dumping NFT strategy as quickly as possible.
manojlds 4y ago
I find it funny that we still call this web3. Web3 might still be something that comes up, might even be the GPT wave.
- cfuendev 4y ago
  Apparently the name stuck because some libraries and websites already adopted the term even if there was no Web3 at all. Lol Jack Dorsey's already working on a Web5 that nobody is interested either. I think that the real Web3 will be mature and developed enough that there will be no need to create a bunch of apps boasting they're on the Web3 nor libraries abstracting Web3 APIs called "web3.js" before the term is even tangible
  - htag 4y ago
    “And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all.” ― George R.R. Martin I wonder if saying "I am the next big thing" has any impact on the probability of being relevant in 15 years.
  - RobotToaster 4y ago
    >Jack Dorsey's already working on a Web5 What happened to web4?
sangnoir 4y ago
This is good for bitco^ web3.
rchaud 4y ago
> There was also a perception that Polygon NFTs aren't as valuable. Valuable to who? This sounds like a quasi-religious schism between ETH blockchain and the Polygon chain. Don't they both accomplish the same thing, i.e. a permanent record of ownership?
- DANmode 4y ago
  Centralisation of failure points matters in this context. "Real" blockchains don't have downtime, etc.

RobotToaster 4y ago

>Reddit has managed to sell Polygon based profile pictures fine, That probably has more to do with selling the digital equivalent of funko pops on reddit, than any technological merit.

DANmode 4y ago
But it does bring up the ever-fascinating schism between what we as technologists think is required for a new technology to begin experiencing adoption. and what that bar actually is for consumers and corps.

himinlomax 4y ago

Just look what happened to doomsday cults when the doomsday clock ran out and no doom occured: some members left, dejected, and those who stayed doubled down in fervor.

3np 4y ago
More like, there have been enough boom/bust cycles by now that many are taking a recovery and future upside for granted.

pavlov 4y ago

> “What's interesting here is that it's not really affecting the perception of people who believe in web3.” I think that’s the definition of belief: it’s not derived from facts so it can’t be shaken by evidence.

nverno 4y ago
Faith would probably better describe that condition, a very steadfast form of belief.
baremetal 4y ago
not all beliefs are non-factual.[1] [1]https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
- nemosaltat 4y ago
  And not all “true beliefs” are based on fact. [1] >At first sight we might imagine that knowledge could be defined as 'true belief'. When what we believe is true, it might be supposed that we had achieved a knowledge of what we believe. But this would not accord with the way in which the word is commonly used. To take a very trivial instance: If a man believes that the late Prime Minister's last name began with a B, he believes what is true, since the late Prime Minister was Sir Henry Campbell Bannerman. But if he believes that Mr. Balfour was the late Prime Minister, he will still believe that the late Prime Minister's last name began with a B, yet this belief, though true, would not be thought to constitute knowledge. [1] THE PROBLEMS OF PHILOSOPHY https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm#link2HCH0008 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5827/5827-h/5827-h.htm#link2...

KyeRussell 4y ago

Reddit’s successful feature enjoys its success for reasons that have nothing to do with NFTs or crypto or the blockchain or whatever else.

cableshaft 4y ago
In that same fashion, the Pokemon collector craze is successful in a way that has nothing to do with them being on physical cards. It would be successful in other form factors as well. Collectors like to collect, no matter the medium. I have a large collection of both physical and digital-only games. Many of those digital games aren't anything more than an entry in a database table that says my steam id is allowed to download and play the files associated with a particular game id, at least until I actually play them. And yet I've probably spent $12k+ on Steam games over the past decade. Hell, probably $5k at least were spent on games I never even got around to actually playing, effectively just giving free money to Valve.
- winphone1974 4y ago
  I don't understand how this can be a valid comparison, unless you bought games planning to never play them, just check them off against your list? That seems like a very minor use case. This would be like people saying they "collect" Kindle books or itunes music. Collecting is based on the idea of scarcity, either real or contrived, and digital plus not even owning the object makes that both impossible to be true and near impossible to pretend.
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    It's not a minor use case. According to Forbes[1], 37% of all games purchased on Steam never get played. Collecting definitely doesn't have to be based on scarcity. Board games aren't scarce (some are long out of print and rare, yes, but most aren't) yet I know people with vast collections (I myself have about 500 board games, and only maybe 3 or 4 are rare enough to be worth any significant money beyond its retail price). If 500 games is not a collection, then what would you call it? 500 board games isn't even necessarily a lot for a collector (it is for me, as I don't have the space to store them anymore and need to sell like 200 of them, but yet I keep compulsively buying new games anyway, I bought 2 more just this past week). I know another guy in my area that has over 2000 board games in his basement. And I (and many other board game collectors) don't play the games anywhere near as much as we buy them. We may justify the purchase with 'oh this would be good for this group someday' but mainly it's just an excuse to get it onto our shelves. Before I started playing board games solo, I'd say about 80% of the games I bought I hadn't played since I bought them, sitting on the shelf (for years) for the possible right board game night in the future for them to be played. Or I played the game since, but someone else's copy, since between my friends we often have 2-5 copies amongst us. Now I mostly buy games I can play solo, and I've played a good chunk of my new purchases the past two years at least once. Buying yet never playing is so common in board games, in fact, that there's a term for those unplayed games: 'The Shelf of Shame'[2] [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-of-all-registered-steam-games-have-never-been-played/?sh=5b6d49a12146 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/04/17/nearly-37-o... [2]: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2199795/lets-stop-calling-it-shelf-shame https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2199795/lets-stop-calling-i...

theK 4y ago

I think there are two issues at play in the current NFT space, both exacerbated by the get-rich-quick potential of NFTs 1. NFTs as ownership standards are not there yet. Even on ETH, there are significant compatibility issues between NFT minters and discussion about downsides of the diverse storage architectures and ownership systems. 2. Classical business is still in flailing hands mode when it comes to adoption of decentralized tech, be it collectibles or more serious stuff. I am happy we are having a winter now and I hope this one will last a while so that the true builders in this space will get the time they need to actually sort stuff out, build much needed infrastructure and for traditional businesses to read up a bit.

illiarian 4y ago
> true builders in this space That's a lot of belief riding on there being "true builders".
- theK 4y ago
  What do you mean?
  - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
    That no such thing exists and the space is a top to bottom grifting scamfest.
    - theK 4y ago
      I don't think that this view can withstand any sort of scrutiny...
      - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
        I think that it can, given articles like this showing that established profitable companies are dumping NFT strategy as quickly as possible.

manojlds 4y ago

I find it funny that we still call this web3. Web3 might still be something that comes up, might even be the GPT wave.

cfuendev 4y ago
Apparently the name stuck because some libraries and websites already adopted the term even if there was no Web3 at all. Lol Jack Dorsey's already working on a Web5 that nobody is interested either. I think that the real Web3 will be mature and developed enough that there will be no need to create a bunch of apps boasting they're on the Web3 nor libraries abstracting Web3 APIs called "web3.js" before the term is even tangible
- htag 4y ago
  “And any man who must say 'I am king' is no true king at all.” ― George R.R. Martin I wonder if saying "I am the next big thing" has any impact on the probability of being relevant in 15 years.
- RobotToaster 4y ago
  >Jack Dorsey's already working on a Web5 What happened to web4?

sangnoir 4y ago

This is good for bitco^ web3.

rchaud 4y ago

> There was also a perception that Polygon NFTs aren't as valuable. Valuable to who? This sounds like a quasi-religious schism between ETH blockchain and the Polygon chain. Don't they both accomplish the same thing, i.e. a permanent record of ownership?

DANmode 4y ago
Centralisation of failure points matters in this context. "Real" blockchains don't have downtime, etc.