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Sorry for the off-topic. This whole NFT debacle would be fun for me if it didn't cost me a dear friend; he's been working full-time on his "collection" for alm

Sorry for the off-topic. This whole NFT debacle would be fun for me if it didn't cost me a dear friend; he's been working full-time on his "collection" for almost two years now, convinced he's "just around the corner of making millions" out of it when it's obvious the ship has long sailed. I guess there's more to it than just NFT craze, and he's probably struggling with other things, but his new "know-it-all NFT bro" persona makes it impossible to even approach him with a normal conversation. Weird rant, I know. I simply don't know what to do anymore.

throwieonthe 4y ago
some ppl do enjoy collecting art, toys, coins, pokemon cards. but if he tells you he’s about to make millions, he might just have a gambling problem. Like stocks which can elicit same behavor.
kordlessagain 4y ago
Crypto, and now AI, are likely the great differentiators between those who seek get rich schemes and those who lever up humanity through innovation, hard work and grit. If I had the ability to migrate to another planet, the last thing I’d take with me would be an NFT image of some stupid primate.
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  Are we still doing “AI is the new crypto” here? I’d like to think that we’ve moved past this by now.
  - inconceivable 4y ago
    just wait until they start really attacking AI. they'll roll out the same playbook. 1. dangerous new technology 2. that uses far too much energy (more than the entire country of X!) 3. do we really know how it works? 4. controlled by a shadowy cabal of super-coders 5. followed by a litany of anecdotal stories about victims of AI 6. and increasingly frequent and increasingly negative coverage of those getting rich off of it they also used the same playbook against the internet, and open source, and mobile/social networking. probably the original cell phones too, at some point. edit: oh, i almost forgot 7. turning the tables on any goldenboy/girl they previously pumped, then will viciously dump when the going gets tough or the inevitable fraud occurs. (unless of course they donated $40million+ to politicians) i'm under 40 and i've seen this cycle about half a dozen times.
    - LeeroyWasHere 4y ago
      That's been the exact playbook. Also mock what it's been used for, find the "worst" example. If not mock, as you say, label it as dangerous.
      - winphone1974 4y ago
        If you want to promote adoption of something like NFTs it's up to you to present the compelling use cases, not get mad at the detractors. The reaction to the reaction here is even more predictable.
    - ImaCake 4y ago
      The playbook against NFTs is that they did nothing useful. That seems to still be the case. ChatGPT is useful, some of us are just not sure how useful it is yet.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Of course if your criteria is "do something useful" (whatever that means exactly), a whole lot of things in both the digital and physical worlds would have a hard time justifying their existence.
      - inconceivable 4y ago
        i'm not pro NFT, i wouldn't touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole. consider, however, that "BUT I'M TELLING YOU IT'S USEFUL!!! WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVE ME!!!" is the exact position the FUDsters want to put you in re: AI. they're constantly on the offensive, no matter what the target is.
      - hurril 4y ago
        You're making an analogy with something (ChatGPT) that isn't analogous. ChatGPT kan be useful or useless and NFT:s would have the same value or qualities otherwise. NFT:s can be useful or useless and ChatGPT would have the same value or qualities otherwise. The one playbook that exists here is defending NFT:s in lieu of it defending itself by being actually useful. (Which is not me saying that they are not nor that they couldn't be. Just that shouting that everyone is dumb and that your product is in fact awesome isn't a good look, is it?)
  - kordlessagain 4y ago
    Crypto is useful. A very long time ago there was a conversation about killer use cases. People on the ethereum side of the room thought programmable chains were it. People on the Bitcoin side said it was micropayments and script based post dating. I said that it was likely paying for compute resources that would be a killer use case. Implementing 402s would be that manifest: https://github.com/lightninglabs/aperture https://github.com/lightninglabs/aperture Now we’re moving deep into the AI markets, this will be a thing, combining both. That said, con artists will still try to hustle others.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      > I said that it was likely paying for compute resources that would be a killer use case. As if we didn't have ways to pay for compute resources already. > Now we’re moving deep into the AI markets, this will be a thing, combining both. Of course it won't. > That said, con artists will still try to hustle others. Indeed. By saying things like "innovative ways to pay for compute resources" and "our AI-enabled crypto bullshit is a cuting-edge thingamabob"
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - kordlessagain 4y ago
        I’ve found that when I don’t state things as fact on here that I don’t end up getting as much ire, but sometimes I just know what I do is true and am too lazy to explain it in my glee in seeing it manifest. Time will tell, but as of now there are still no killer uses for crypto, other than hustling others.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    hot air is still hot air. Yahoo! being a useful web directory doesn't mean that Pets.com is going to be good because it's "Web-powered". Right now the majority of AI startups are hypeware.
- theK 4y ago
  I think I know what you are trying to say, but there night be an issue with your metaphor. The whole point of an NFT is that you don't have to take it with you as you owning it is chain state.
  - lowkey_ 4y ago
    Out of curiosity (not into crypto so very little knowledge), what do you have to take with you to be able to view the NFT?
    - exitb 4y ago
      The NFT does not contain the asset itself, it’s just a meta-document that points to the asset. So if that pointer is a URL, the answer would probably be “a good chunk of the internet”.
      - rgbrgb 4y ago
        I’d reckon the simpler answer is more likely a jpeg or mp4.
    - theK 4y ago
      This is dependent on what the NFT actually gives access to or is linked to. 90% of NFTs probably are just ownership certificates of JPGs so if that is what you want to "view" then the answer probably is "a JPG". Other NFTs though might be some sort of online game char, access tokens to a live feed or just symbols of on-chaining offchain consensus. In those cases the answer isn't that straight forward. But generally I'd remark that an NFT in itself only has utility as long as you have access to its underlying chain, so if you cannot take the interaction with the chain with you its not going to be very useful. OTOH, if your sole purpose is looking at pretty pictures then one will probably best just compile JPGs to a folder. But that doesn't mean that one owns those pictures or that there are NFTs involved.
  - kordlessagain 4y ago
    If I’m 50 light years from here, the colored coin on a backwaters planet has zero meaning. It’s a continued fallacy that a physical thing may be secured by a crypto transaction (entry to a DAG). Now, immediate identity and exchange of contract value, such as on Lightning, may be useful for compute resources, but only in the moment of inference. Crypto was built to service AI, and more specifically, GAI. This is crypto’s “killer” use case. Everything else done with it is a sideshow.
plugin-baby 4y ago
Maybe read advice on how to deal with a friend or family member joining a cult. AFAIU, don’t criticise the hobby, and try to maintain contact, so that when he wants out he still has a friend.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Well, speaking of a cult, we have NFT.NYC in a few days here in my city. It has many corporate industry sponsors, takes over the largest hotel in Times Square for three days, and many of the billboards. Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement. And many people from all over the world will be coming to have fun with NFTs and try out new things. I guess Bitcoin can be considered a cult, too. HODL became a religion since 2013, after it became obvious Bitcoin wouldn’t be “an electronic peer-to-peer cash system” and the “store of value” aspect of money was the only one left.
  - okeuro49 4y ago
    > Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement I think there's a level of money laundering involved.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      I imagine it is the same with Bitcoin as well, and also highly overpriced art, and casino gambling, and investments in startups, etc.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    > Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement Scientology probably puts NFT-bro-ism to shame with its level of industry involvement... It's just usually less in your face about the cult part.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      I thought about mentioning scientology for comparison, to say I don’t remember Scientology taking over Times Square with a lot of industry participants… but then again I am not part of that world so for all I know they could have a huge convention in Vegas every year, with megachurches AND some sort of new books / auditing companies etc.
3np 4y ago
As someone embedded in the space and tending to be an apologist for the technology here: I'm really sorry for your friend. I think due to the polarization and frenzy, the parallels to gambling and gaming addiction and the broader context of mental health is something that isn't talked about enough in a constructive manner in "investment" circles. Many aren't aware how much they're putting on the line not necessarily financially but emotionally, mentally, and identity.
samstr 4y ago
[dead]
23B1 4y ago
Your friend is an addict and should seek gambling addiction groups.
- jterrys 4y ago
  Yup, that's what happened to a former friend of mine. 2020 Rolls around, stock market goes crazy, everyone starts talking about something called "options". Few weeks later everyone lost a little bit of money and tapped out, not much, just a few hundred here and there. Except one friend, who blew all their savings for a high they never got again. Went hook line and sinker for GME, shitty IPO scams, NFTs, you name it. They got burned over and over. Eventually broke off contact with the friend group because of money.
Keyframe 4y ago
It’s not weird. What you’re wittnessing is gambling addiction. Seek out advice how to approach such a person and suddenly everything will make sense.
gumballindie 4y ago
> but his new "know-it-all NFT bro" persona A bit like the emerging ai bros. Every few years we get these types bubbling up. I admire their commitment but some need a break.
- sdfghswe 4y ago
  I keep hearing about these ai bros. Can you give me a specific example of one?
  - wellthisisgreat 4y ago
    My problem too - you can’t really babble some unverifiable stuff (macroeconomic predictions, societal changes for crypto) in AI. If you don’t know how it works you are sol, bro or not.

throwieonthe 4y ago

some ppl do enjoy collecting art, toys, coins, pokemon cards. but if he tells you he’s about to make millions, he might just have a gambling problem. Like stocks which can elicit same behavor.

kordlessagain 4y ago

Crypto, and now AI, are likely the great differentiators between those who seek get rich schemes and those who lever up humanity through innovation, hard work and grit. If I had the ability to migrate to another planet, the last thing I’d take with me would be an NFT image of some stupid primate.

KyeRussell 4y ago
Are we still doing “AI is the new crypto” here? I’d like to think that we’ve moved past this by now.
- inconceivable 4y ago
  just wait until they start really attacking AI. they'll roll out the same playbook. 1. dangerous new technology 2. that uses far too much energy (more than the entire country of X!) 3. do we really know how it works? 4. controlled by a shadowy cabal of super-coders 5. followed by a litany of anecdotal stories about victims of AI 6. and increasingly frequent and increasingly negative coverage of those getting rich off of it they also used the same playbook against the internet, and open source, and mobile/social networking. probably the original cell phones too, at some point. edit: oh, i almost forgot 7. turning the tables on any goldenboy/girl they previously pumped, then will viciously dump when the going gets tough or the inevitable fraud occurs. (unless of course they donated $40million+ to politicians) i'm under 40 and i've seen this cycle about half a dozen times.
  - LeeroyWasHere 4y ago
    That's been the exact playbook. Also mock what it's been used for, find the "worst" example. If not mock, as you say, label it as dangerous.
    - winphone1974 4y ago
      If you want to promote adoption of something like NFTs it's up to you to present the compelling use cases, not get mad at the detractors. The reaction to the reaction here is even more predictable.
  - ImaCake 4y ago
    The playbook against NFTs is that they did nothing useful. That seems to still be the case. ChatGPT is useful, some of us are just not sure how useful it is yet.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Of course if your criteria is "do something useful" (whatever that means exactly), a whole lot of things in both the digital and physical worlds would have a hard time justifying their existence.
    - inconceivable 4y ago
      i'm not pro NFT, i wouldn't touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole. consider, however, that "BUT I'M TELLING YOU IT'S USEFUL!!! WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVE ME!!!" is the exact position the FUDsters want to put you in re: AI. they're constantly on the offensive, no matter what the target is.
    - hurril 4y ago
      You're making an analogy with something (ChatGPT) that isn't analogous. ChatGPT kan be useful or useless and NFT:s would have the same value or qualities otherwise. NFT:s can be useful or useless and ChatGPT would have the same value or qualities otherwise. The one playbook that exists here is defending NFT:s in lieu of it defending itself by being actually useful. (Which is not me saying that they are not nor that they couldn't be. Just that shouting that everyone is dumb and that your product is in fact awesome isn't a good look, is it?)
- kordlessagain 4y ago
  Crypto is useful. A very long time ago there was a conversation about killer use cases. People on the ethereum side of the room thought programmable chains were it. People on the Bitcoin side said it was micropayments and script based post dating. I said that it was likely paying for compute resources that would be a killer use case. Implementing 402s would be that manifest: https://github.com/lightninglabs/aperture https://github.com/lightninglabs/aperture Now we’re moving deep into the AI markets, this will be a thing, combining both. That said, con artists will still try to hustle others.
  - illiarian 4y ago
    > I said that it was likely paying for compute resources that would be a killer use case. As if we didn't have ways to pay for compute resources already. > Now we’re moving deep into the AI markets, this will be a thing, combining both. Of course it won't. > That said, con artists will still try to hustle others. Indeed. By saying things like "innovative ways to pay for compute resources" and "our AI-enabled crypto bullshit is a cuting-edge thingamabob"
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - kordlessagain 4y ago
      I’ve found that when I don’t state things as fact on here that I don’t end up getting as much ire, but sometimes I just know what I do is true and am too lazy to explain it in my glee in seeing it manifest. Time will tell, but as of now there are still no killer uses for crypto, other than hustling others.
- rchaud 4y ago
  hot air is still hot air. Yahoo! being a useful web directory doesn't mean that Pets.com is going to be good because it's "Web-powered". Right now the majority of AI startups are hypeware.
theK 4y ago
I think I know what you are trying to say, but there night be an issue with your metaphor. The whole point of an NFT is that you don't have to take it with you as you owning it is chain state.
- lowkey_ 4y ago
  Out of curiosity (not into crypto so very little knowledge), what do you have to take with you to be able to view the NFT?
  - exitb 4y ago
    The NFT does not contain the asset itself, it’s just a meta-document that points to the asset. So if that pointer is a URL, the answer would probably be “a good chunk of the internet”.
    - rgbrgb 4y ago
      I’d reckon the simpler answer is more likely a jpeg or mp4.
  - theK 4y ago
    This is dependent on what the NFT actually gives access to or is linked to. 90% of NFTs probably are just ownership certificates of JPGs so if that is what you want to "view" then the answer probably is "a JPG". Other NFTs though might be some sort of online game char, access tokens to a live feed or just symbols of on-chaining offchain consensus. In those cases the answer isn't that straight forward. But generally I'd remark that an NFT in itself only has utility as long as you have access to its underlying chain, so if you cannot take the interaction with the chain with you its not going to be very useful. OTOH, if your sole purpose is looking at pretty pictures then one will probably best just compile JPGs to a folder. But that doesn't mean that one owns those pictures or that there are NFTs involved.
- kordlessagain 4y ago
  If I’m 50 light years from here, the colored coin on a backwaters planet has zero meaning. It’s a continued fallacy that a physical thing may be secured by a crypto transaction (entry to a DAG). Now, immediate identity and exchange of contract value, such as on Lightning, may be useful for compute resources, but only in the moment of inference. Crypto was built to service AI, and more specifically, GAI. This is crypto’s “killer” use case. Everything else done with it is a sideshow.

plugin-baby 4y ago

Maybe read advice on how to deal with a friend or family member joining a cult. AFAIU, don’t criticise the hobby, and try to maintain contact, so that when he wants out he still has a friend.

EGreg 4y ago
Well, speaking of a cult, we have NFT.NYC in a few days here in my city. It has many corporate industry sponsors, takes over the largest hotel in Times Square for three days, and many of the billboards. Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement. And many people from all over the world will be coming to have fun with NFTs and try out new things. I guess Bitcoin can be considered a cult, too. HODL became a religion since 2013, after it became obvious Bitcoin wouldn’t be “an electronic peer-to-peer cash system” and the “store of value” aspect of money was the only one left.
- okeuro49 4y ago
  > Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement I think there's a level of money laundering involved.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    I imagine it is the same with Bitcoin as well, and also highly overpriced art, and casino gambling, and investments in startups, etc.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  > Cults don’t usually have that level of industry involvement Scientology probably puts NFT-bro-ism to shame with its level of industry involvement... It's just usually less in your face about the cult part.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    I thought about mentioning scientology for comparison, to say I don’t remember Scientology taking over Times Square with a lot of industry participants… but then again I am not part of that world so for all I know they could have a huge convention in Vegas every year, with megachurches AND some sort of new books / auditing companies etc.

3np 4y ago

As someone embedded in the space and tending to be an apologist for the technology here: I'm really sorry for your friend. I think due to the polarization and frenzy, the parallels to gambling and gaming addiction and the broader context of mental health is something that isn't talked about enough in a constructive manner in "investment" circles. Many aren't aware how much they're putting on the line not necessarily financially but emotionally, mentally, and identity.

samstr 4y ago

[dead]

23B1 4y ago

Your friend is an addict and should seek gambling addiction groups.

jterrys 4y ago
Yup, that's what happened to a former friend of mine. 2020 Rolls around, stock market goes crazy, everyone starts talking about something called "options". Few weeks later everyone lost a little bit of money and tapped out, not much, just a few hundred here and there. Except one friend, who blew all their savings for a high they never got again. Went hook line and sinker for GME, shitty IPO scams, NFTs, you name it. They got burned over and over. Eventually broke off contact with the friend group because of money.

Keyframe 4y ago

It’s not weird. What you’re wittnessing is gambling addiction. Seek out advice how to approach such a person and suddenly everything will make sense.

gumballindie 4y ago

> but his new "know-it-all NFT bro" persona A bit like the emerging ai bros. Every few years we get these types bubbling up. I admire their commitment but some need a break.

sdfghswe 4y ago
I keep hearing about these ai bros. Can you give me a specific example of one?
- wellthisisgreat 4y ago
  My problem too - you can’t really babble some unverifiable stuff (macroeconomic predictions, societal changes for crypto) in AI. If you don’t know how it works you are sol, bro or not.