3 ms·

Wages definitely are pennies on the dollar. However factors like international shipping, taxes/tariffs, quality control and lead times cost more time and money

Wages definitely are pennies on the dollar. However factors like international shipping, taxes/tariffs, quality control and lead times cost more time and money compared to domestic. So in the end it’s probably closer to 1/2 the monetary cost.

derefr 4y ago
> international shipping, taxes/tariffs If I can get an ePacket from AliExpress for a $0.50 item without paying shipping (and presumably where the shipper didn’t eat the shipping+tariff costs either, those costs not being worth it to make at most $0.50), presumably there’s a way around both of these things. Also, insofar as your argument would seem to generalize to any country’s domestic imports, this makes it “too strong”, and therefore suspicious as economic theory. There are plenty of markets outside of North America that can be served overland or with not-so-powerful ships from developing-country suppliers. (Africa can sell to itself, and to Europe, and the Middle East. Many South American nations can sell into Brazil. Obviously, you can drive a truck of t-shirts from Thailand or Vietnam straight to China. The Philippines can ship pretty cheaply to Japan and Taiwan. Etc.) So why do these countries still have domestic factories? Why does Germany still make cars? Why isn’t China outsourcing electronics production to Vietnam? The same arguments should apply to them, even more strongly than it does to America. But we don’t see the same effect.
- Brybry 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure ePacket is subsidized by China Post and/or USPS and that's why it's so cheap. I remember there was drama[1][2] around it during Trump's administration. It might not be so ridiculously cheap once 2025 comes around and they've finished phasing in price increases. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump-changes-terminal-dues-and-epacket-rates/573337/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union#2019_Extraordinary_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union#2019_Ex...
  - gorbypark 4y ago
    A few years ago in Spain, AliExpress orders always came via Correos (national postal operator), at least once it arrived in Spain. Nowadays, it seems everything is private, at least in the major city I live in. Based on how they will combine orders in China, it seems like the seller ships to an AliExpress operated warehouse in China, orders are combined and packaged together, flown to Madrid, then from there private companies fly it to where it’s going (in my case Valencia) and then it’s dispatched out to delivery driver, usually on a bike or scooter. Usually the employee is wearing a UberEats or Just Eat backpack, so I assume either the delivery companies are in the last mile game, or the delivery drivers themselves are picking up packages when it makes sense. Maybe there’s a gig-economy app for package delivery I’m not aware of? Anyways, long story to say that anecdotally prices haven’t really gone up at all. At one point they started charging VAT on orders (21%), but the switch to private delivery hasn’t seemed to increase prices.
- loeg 4y ago
  AliExpress shipping to the US is heavily subsidized by USPS.
ikiris 4y ago
If you've never seen the costs for bulk ship shipping, they're effectively infinitesimal. The downsides are high latency, but not cost or throughput unless a disaster strikes.

derefr 4y ago

> international shipping, taxes/tariffs If I can get an ePacket from AliExpress for a $0.50 item without paying shipping (and presumably where the shipper didn’t eat the shipping+tariff costs either, those costs not being worth it to make at most $0.50), presumably there’s a way around both of these things. Also, insofar as your argument would seem to generalize to any country’s domestic imports, this makes it “too strong”, and therefore suspicious as economic theory. There are plenty of markets outside of North America that can be served overland or with not-so-powerful ships from developing-country suppliers. (Africa can sell to itself, and to Europe, and the Middle East. Many South American nations can sell into Brazil. Obviously, you can drive a truck of t-shirts from Thailand or Vietnam straight to China. The Philippines can ship pretty cheaply to Japan and Taiwan. Etc.) So why do these countries still have domestic factories? Why does Germany still make cars? Why isn’t China outsourcing electronics production to Vietnam? The same arguments should apply to them, even more strongly than it does to America. But we don’t see the same effect.

Brybry 4y ago
I'm pretty sure ePacket is subsidized by China Post and/or USPS and that's why it's so cheap. I remember there was drama[1][2] around it during Trump's administration. It might not be so ridiculously cheap once 2025 comes around and they've finished phasing in price increases. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump-changes-terminal-dues-and-epacket-rates/573337/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/trump... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union#2019_Extraordinary_Congress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union#2019_Ex...
- gorbypark 4y ago
  A few years ago in Spain, AliExpress orders always came via Correos (national postal operator), at least once it arrived in Spain. Nowadays, it seems everything is private, at least in the major city I live in. Based on how they will combine orders in China, it seems like the seller ships to an AliExpress operated warehouse in China, orders are combined and packaged together, flown to Madrid, then from there private companies fly it to where it’s going (in my case Valencia) and then it’s dispatched out to delivery driver, usually on a bike or scooter. Usually the employee is wearing a UberEats or Just Eat backpack, so I assume either the delivery companies are in the last mile game, or the delivery drivers themselves are picking up packages when it makes sense. Maybe there’s a gig-economy app for package delivery I’m not aware of? Anyways, long story to say that anecdotally prices haven’t really gone up at all. At one point they started charging VAT on orders (21%), but the switch to private delivery hasn’t seemed to increase prices.
loeg 4y ago
AliExpress shipping to the US is heavily subsidized by USPS.

ikiris 4y ago

If you've never seen the costs for bulk ship shipping, they're effectively infinitesimal. The downsides are high latency, but not cost or throughput unless a disaster strikes.