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> I tell myself that it would be rude and ungrateful to the Elm community for me to publicly declare Culture Amp’s departure from the fold > What We Owe to Elm

> I tell myself that it would be rude and ungrateful to the Elm community for me to publicly declare Culture Amp’s departure from the fold > What We Owe to Elm Everyone who talks about Elm sounds like they have Stockholm syndrome. Don't think I've seen a single good experience lately.

SantalBlush 3y ago
I don't know, these two quotes don't immediately take me to "Stockholm syndrome."
- vmchale 3y ago
  If you read more about the Elm community you'll see similar things. Been happening for years! https://dev.to/kspeakman/elm-019-broke-us--khn https://dev.to/kspeakman/elm-019-broke-us--khn
  - SantalBlush 3y ago
    Could you explain how the two quotes above are similar to the story in this link? Because they don't look similar to me.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
epolanski 3y ago
Because the language is frozen in 2019, it's last meaningful release. It was doomed to end this way due to the close leadership and being developed behind closed doors by a single developer. This kind of projects, as amazing as they are, and Elm is absolutely an amazing language and project that has changed and influenced web development meaningfully, are just untrustable. If you can't have a discussion with library authors where they confront their ideas in the open, you need to move on or pay the consequences.
- jrochkind1 3y ago
  > If you can't have a discussion with a library authors where they confront their ideas in the open Interestingly, for the most part you can't do this with Rails authors. It does not make me super confident in the future of Rails. From the authors point of view, I suppose it saves them time arguing in public in useless ways.
  - epolanski 3y ago
    I don't follow much Rails, but from your comment, at least in case of Rails, the number of authors is plural.
    - jrochkind1 3y ago
      Correct. It wasn't clear to me that you were only talking about when there is only one maintainer, but it does make sense to me that the problem is _greatest_ when there's only one maintainer, sure. It still doens't fill me with confidence even when there's a junta. With Rails, we also suspect there is one person, the original author, who has outsized authority within the plural authors, who at least occasionally, maybe more, makes final decisions without even internal discussion among the committers "committee"... but since it all happens in private, and nobody ever reveals anything about what happened there, it's hard to say how much internal discussion there is amongst the plural authors, or how often big decisions get made by fiat. It does feel very... politburo.
- jlundberg 3y ago
  What is lacking in the 2019 release and in what ways does the frozen feeling make things bad in reality? I am curious since we have one major project written in Elm since 2017 and it has been a great success.
  - surprisetalk 3y ago
    I’m curious about this too. There are no obvious landmines in the Elm compiler. I adore using technology that feels “finished”. I personally view its infrequent updates as its best feature.

SantalBlush 3y ago

I don't know, these two quotes don't immediately take me to "Stockholm syndrome."

vmchale 3y ago
If you read more about the Elm community you'll see similar things. Been happening for years! https://dev.to/kspeakman/elm-019-broke-us--khn https://dev.to/kspeakman/elm-019-broke-us--khn
- SantalBlush 3y ago
  Could you explain how the two quotes above are similar to the story in this link? Because they don't look similar to me.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

epolanski 3y ago

Because the language is frozen in 2019, it's last meaningful release. It was doomed to end this way due to the close leadership and being developed behind closed doors by a single developer. This kind of projects, as amazing as they are, and Elm is absolutely an amazing language and project that has changed and influenced web development meaningfully, are just untrustable. If you can't have a discussion with library authors where they confront their ideas in the open, you need to move on or pay the consequences.

jrochkind1 3y ago
> If you can't have a discussion with a library authors where they confront their ideas in the open Interestingly, for the most part you can't do this with Rails authors. It does not make me super confident in the future of Rails. From the authors point of view, I suppose it saves them time arguing in public in useless ways.
- epolanski 3y ago
  I don't follow much Rails, but from your comment, at least in case of Rails, the number of authors is plural.
  - jrochkind1 3y ago
    Correct. It wasn't clear to me that you were only talking about when there is only one maintainer, but it does make sense to me that the problem is _greatest_ when there's only one maintainer, sure. It still doens't fill me with confidence even when there's a junta. With Rails, we also suspect there is one person, the original author, who has outsized authority within the plural authors, who at least occasionally, maybe more, makes final decisions without even internal discussion among the committers "committee"... but since it all happens in private, and nobody ever reveals anything about what happened there, it's hard to say how much internal discussion there is amongst the plural authors, or how often big decisions get made by fiat. It does feel very... politburo.
jlundberg 3y ago
What is lacking in the 2019 release and in what ways does the frozen feeling make things bad in reality? I am curious since we have one major project written in Elm since 2017 and it has been a great success.
- surprisetalk 3y ago
  I’m curious about this too. There are no obvious landmines in the Elm compiler. I adore using technology that feels “finished”. I personally view its infrequent updates as its best feature.