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Dad says glitch in ‘Find My iPhone’ app directs angry strangers to his home
- hn_user2 3y agoThis article is missing so many technical details. Would have been so interesting to dig into the "why" and "how".
- tapoxi 3y agoI've had something similar happen. For devices that don't have or can't access GPS, they look the MAC address of nearby wifi base stations and see if anything correlated that with a location earlier. This is what the iphone did at launch with the skyhook database. However in some cases your wifi MAC isn't unique and it'll think you're elsewhere. In my specific case it kept resetting my time zone to somewhere in Russia (I'm in Massachusetts) because that's what the MAC said. It seems to be worse if there are no other networks in range for it to do sanity checking against.
- klyrs 3y agoExpecting this random guy to deeply understand the technicalities of why Apple is directing angry people to his house, in a state where it's legal to kill people for stealing your stuff, is not terribly reasonable. If techies are interested, they could help by figuring out the reason for this.
- augment001 3y agoExpecting journalists to have an answer before writing a piece is very reasonable.
- klyrs 3y ago> The Post reached out to Apple on Thursday seeking comment on Schuster’s predicament, and the company’s efforts to resolve it, and was awaiting a reply.
- augment001 3y agoThere are technologists other than Apple who could help them understand.
- sangeeth96 3y agoYeah sure, expecting journalists to find a cause + fix for the trillion-dollar company's buggy software and _only_ call-out and amplify a commoner's struggle _after_ they figure it out sounds super reasonable. Totally.
- augment001 3y agoI’m curious why you imagine anyone is expecting that?
- refulgentis 3y agoBecause you said "Expecting journalists to have an answer before writing a piece is very reasonable." - given the journalist did not have an answer, it implies you think the journalist should have had an answer before publishing
- augment001 3y agoHow is that relevant to Sangeeth69’s comment? There doesn’t seem to be any connection between what they said and what I said.
- refulgentis 3y agoYou said "Expecting journalists to have an answer before writing a piece is very reasonable.", implying it was reasonable to ask journalists to have an answer to the Q in the article. Sangeeth disagrees with you.
- augment001 3y agoI don’t think so. Can you quote something that Sangeeth wrote that indicates how they disagree with me?
- refulgentis 3y ago
- beezle 3y agoIts da Post so maybe not.
- augment001 3y agoIn what state is it legal to kill people for stealing your stuff?
- doubled112 3y agoI’m fairly certain it is legal to shoot people on your property just for being on your property in some states. I don’t know about finding somebody and “protecting” your property somewhere else.
- augment001 3y agoI think you’re spreading misinformation. I hope it’s not intentional. There is not a single state in the US where it is legal to shoot someone just for being on your property.
- jklein11 3y agoIt does seem like there are a number of states in which deadly force is permitted in the circumstances of trespassing https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-criminal-justice/self-defense-and-stand-your-ground https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-criminal-justice/self-defense...
- jklein11 3y agoWhile it probably wouldn’t apply in this specific case, in Texas the Castle Doctrine describes circumstances where one could apply lethal force to defend one’s property
- augment001 3y agoCan you explain how this has any relevance at all to going to someone else’s house and killing them because you wrongly think your cellphone is somewhere nearby? As far as I can see the person who I was replying to is simply making this up.
- 3y ago
- hn_user2 3y agoI don't expect a random guy to deeply understand the technicalities, but I do expect a journalist to do more investigation than reaching out to a large corporation for comment. Regardless of what is "expected" I stand by that it would have been interesting to dig in to the details. Hopefully somebody does. I doubt apple will, but I think there can be lessons learned from understanding how it happened if someone were to research it.
- wilg 3y agoCould just be in the center of whatever radius the system spits out from cell tower triangulation, I assume? Or something similar. The technical details would be fun.
- doktorhladnjak 3y agoI wonder if he shares a wifi SSID or MAC address on some wifi device in his home with a thief's
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoApple may not be directly responsible or capable of rectifying this. It could be a third-party database. See also: geolocation database errors. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-mapping-lawsuit-kansas-farm-ip-address https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-m...
- SllX 3y agoThey’re responsible for the final product no matter what databases they use.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoNo, actually they cannot be responsible, because Apple cannot even see the devices or locations that are being reported. I am confident that you will find, in the app(s) and devices, equal disclaimers of any warranty or fitness for purpose of the Service, just like any other software EULA. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/find-my/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/find-my/ Find My can use the Find My network to help find devices even if they are not connected to the internet and, for supported devices, even if they are turned off or erased. Devices in the Find My network use Bluetooth wireless technology to detect missing devices or compatible items nearby, including AirTags and compatible third-party products registered to your Apple ID, and report their approximate location back to the owner. If a device is turned off or erased, that location is also visible to members of the owner’s Family Sharing group with whom they have chosen to share the location. The interaction is end-to-end encrypted, and Apple cannot see the location of any offline device or reporting device. When your device participates in the Find My network, it can both be located by the network and anonymously help locate other missing devices. ... For more information on AirTags and compatible third-party products, including instructions on adding these products to Find My and registering them to your Apple ID, visit support.apple.com/kb/HT211331.
- gnicholas 3y agoThis raises an interesting question. If the homeowner never bought any Apple products, then he would not be bound by the EULA in any way. It's less clear what would happen in the event that the homeowner does have some Apple devices, and has clicked through the EULA at some point. I would still say he'd have a good argument that Apple has wronged him by sending a constant stream of unhappy/confused/irate people to his home.
- crazygringo 3y ago> "Scott Schuster told the local news station KTRK that he’s been visited by close to a dozen irate people over the past few years, telling him that their missing phone had last pinged at his address." So like... a couple people a year? As far as annoyances go, not exactly a big one. Still, I'm happy he has this article now. He can just show it to the couple new visitors who arrive each year. Heck, frame it and put it above the doorbell... Of course, it's also the perfect cover if he ever wanted to turn into an iPhone and AirPods thief... :P In all seriousness though, I would be concerned if somebody ever did become violent. I'd definitely want the local police to be aware of the situation in advance and be ready to call them. But also, the solution is maybe as easy as replacing your Wi-Fi router?
- suby 3y ago> So like... a couple people a year? As far as annoyances go, not exactly a big one. This is a safety issue more than it is an annoyance issue. Someone may get violent if they think they have evidence that you've stolen their phone and are denying it.
- Mike_12345 3y ago> But also, the solution is maybe as easy as replacing your Wi-Fi router? GPS coordinates have nothing to do with Wi-Fi routers. He could bulldoze his house and people would still show up to that location because the GPS system does not know or care what is at that location.
- datapolitical 3y agoApple’s location database uses the location of Wi-Fi routers to get proper GPS locations. If someone is spoofing his routers MAC address, then that could fix it.
- sys_64738 3y ago> So like... a couple people a year? As far as annoyances go, not exactly a big one. People who are looking for their possessions and think you have them are probably not going to be rational when you tell them to leave. The homeowner will have to call 911 to get them trespassed each time. That's a waste of his time.
- metadat 3y agoI recall a similar phenomenon some years before the pandemic, where Google Maps (?) continually led streams of angry humans to a particular person's residence. I've not succeeded in pulling up the reference, unfortunately. I can only imagine how much it must suck to be at the blunt end of such MegaCorp oversights.
- miloignis 3y agoIt's pretty similar to this Reply-All episode: #53: In the Desert: Strangers keep coming to Mike and Christina’s house looking for their stolen cell phones. Nobody knows why. We travel to Atlanta to find out what’s going on, in our thorniest Super Tech Support yet. https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8hodm/ https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8hodm/
- dougmwne 3y agoHe should obviously sue Apple for endangering his family. I’m sure there’s a decent payout in this for him.
- SebastienWae 3y agoThis reminded me of the MaxMind story a few years ago, when they used some family farm in Kansas as the default location when they couldn't find a match for an IP. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-mapping-lawsuit-kansas-farm-ip-address https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-m...
- RHSeeger 3y agoIf I recall correctly, it was a case of "we can tell this is in the US, but not where... so we return the center of the US with a _radius of error_ that encompasses the entire country"... and then a bunch of people who look at the location but not the radius. I seem to recall it happened with law enforcement more than once; which could lead to dangerous results.
- throw-4e451c8 3y ago> A supposed glitch in the popular “Found My iPhone” app has been directing random strangers to the home of an unsuspecting Texas dad at all hours of the day, falsely accusing him of stealing their electronic devices. [...] he’s been visited by close to a dozen irate people over the past few years, telling him that their missing phone had last pinged at his address. He wouldn't be the first dad to be totally unaware of what his shithead kid(s) is/are up to.
- Etheryte 3y agoDoesn't sound likely, the kids are 7 and 9 years old respectively, and he says the issue has been going on for years. Unless the older one turned into a brilliant pickpocket at age 7 I would rule this out. With older kids, sure, I can see this happening.
- throw-4e451c8 3y agoAgreed, that makes this scenario a lot less likely.
- zamadatix 3y agoFWIW they are in the NY Post article as well, just further in.
- jklein11 3y agoLOL my initial reaction was wow this a a creative defense to petty theft. The GPS says your phone is at my house? Must be a bug!
- mtlynch 3y agoThere was a good Reply All about a similar phenomenon in Atlanta: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8hodm https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/n8hodm
- low_tech_love 3y agoAnyone managed to come up with any reasonable explanation yet?
- up6w6 3y agoI think because Find My relies solely on the GPS report of surround Apple devices, it may happen in the situation where the only Ithings around the stolen devices are the ones in this family.
- p41nt3r 3y ago[dead]
- delaklo 3y agoSounds like the plot of a horror movie