4 ms·

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholders are raking it in on a poorly planned out government “green” project to meter small users.

simfree 4y ago
Is that the base daily meter rate or monthly meter rate causing the extra $0.14/kwh cost? Sounds like your using very little power. Local grids are generally a fixed cost to maintain, if there was no base charge your neighbors would be subsidizing the maintenance of your connection to the grid. Separating fixed cost from marginal cost is the equitable solution in this case.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Yes, CAD$17 for the 190kwh itself and CAD$39 in fixed charges. hot water is central and heat is effectively central, so low direct usage (so why meter) but not too far off the average for my building. There are about a hundred units each paying a separate fixed cost in one building. Anyone that thinks the cost/unit is the same to light up 100 detached homes is crazy. But that’s how the government regulated the billing (guess what kind of housing the decision makers live in?), which is why the Bermudan partnership jumped in to collect the distribution fees instead of letting the local utility collect that easy money.
  - simfree 4y ago
    Damn, your using very little power. All power use under thr first 500kWh is discounted here in Seattle, your not even burning half that in a month. Sounds like you live in an apartment or condo tho with other heavy power draws like heat offloaded, which is rare these days. Most rental buildings here got rid of central heat and left each tenant to fend for themselves with inefficient baseboard electric heat.
throw0101c 4y ago
Toronto Hydro† also has time-of-use rates: * https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates † Mostly due to historical reason of early generator stations being hydro-electric (water falls), electricity is called "hydro" in many parts of Canada.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  But if you’re submetered, the entire building has to collectively choose between time of day or tiered. For most condo/apartment dwellers, and often smaller homeowners, they’ll pay less overall on tiered plans instead of time-of-day billing.
- discretion22 4y ago
  In Ontario the published rates also omit the 'delivery' fees and additional charges added on top (per kWh) which are unavoidable. The real rate actually paid is typically double the supposed rate. Factoring in the actual price people really pay, the rate is more like that of Barbados, Greece etc, right towards to most expensive end of the table. Despite the essentially unlimited hydro generation possible thanks to the Great Lakes running through Ontario, there has been a huge push towards shifting generation to wind and solar as part of 'carbon emission reductions'. Prices have increased rapidly as a result and the Provincial Government now has to subsidize everyone's electricity bill in order to try and keep electricity affordable - the subsidies are funded by borrowing so build up huge debt burdens with little planning on how those will ever be repaid.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Ontario is mostly nuclear in installed capacity. “Hydro” has been a misnomer for a while. https://ieso.ca/ https://ieso.ca/ While we are definitely overpaying for wind and solar capacity, there isn’t enough of it to really justify the prices we pay (and arguably, solar performs best when demand is highest, so its cost-benefit isn’t as bad as many believe)
Mister_Snuggles 4y ago
In Alberta, I'm on a fixed-price contract for 8.69c/kWh. Add in the distribution, transmission, and local access fee charges and my all-in rate is actually 15.217c/kWh. But that's not all, there's also a 20.6c/day administrative charge. Of course, those are only the charges I've actually dug into. On top of this there is a "Transmission Charge Deferral Account True-Up Rider", "Transmission True-Up Rider", and "Balancing Pool Allocation Rider". Generally these changes are small enough that they're not worth the effort to dig into. There is also a $75/mo rebate applied to the bill, which is part of the government's affordability measures. Finally, on top of all of that, there is the 5% sales tax which is calculated on the total amount before that $75 rebate. I'm fortunate to be on a fixed-price contract. People who weren't had a portion of their power bill deferred and have to pay it back between April 2023 and December 2024. The catch is that current non-contract customers are stuck paying back their utility provider's deferral, which includes the deferral for customers who had charges deferred but since switched to a contract. This article[0] explains it better than I can. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/9586632/alberta-regulated-rate-option-energy-bill-increase/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9586632/alberta-regulated-rate-op...

simfree 4y ago

Is that the base daily meter rate or monthly meter rate causing the extra $0.14/kwh cost? Sounds like your using very little power. Local grids are generally a fixed cost to maintain, if there was no base charge your neighbors would be subsidizing the maintenance of your connection to the grid. Separating fixed cost from marginal cost is the equitable solution in this case.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Yes, CAD$17 for the 190kwh itself and CAD$39 in fixed charges. hot water is central and heat is effectively central, so low direct usage (so why meter) but not too far off the average for my building. There are about a hundred units each paying a separate fixed cost in one building. Anyone that thinks the cost/unit is the same to light up 100 detached homes is crazy. But that’s how the government regulated the billing (guess what kind of housing the decision makers live in?), which is why the Bermudan partnership jumped in to collect the distribution fees instead of letting the local utility collect that easy money.
- simfree 4y ago
  Damn, your using very little power. All power use under thr first 500kWh is discounted here in Seattle, your not even burning half that in a month. Sounds like you live in an apartment or condo tho with other heavy power draws like heat offloaded, which is rare these days. Most rental buildings here got rid of central heat and left each tenant to fend for themselves with inefficient baseboard electric heat.

throw0101c 4y ago

Toronto Hydro† also has time-of-use rates: * https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates † Mostly due to historical reason of early generator stations being hydro-electric (water falls), electricity is called "hydro" in many parts of Canada.

Scoundreller 4y ago
But if you’re submetered, the entire building has to collectively choose between time of day or tiered. For most condo/apartment dwellers, and often smaller homeowners, they’ll pay less overall on tiered plans instead of time-of-day billing.
discretion22 4y ago
In Ontario the published rates also omit the 'delivery' fees and additional charges added on top (per kWh) which are unavoidable. The real rate actually paid is typically double the supposed rate. Factoring in the actual price people really pay, the rate is more like that of Barbados, Greece etc, right towards to most expensive end of the table. Despite the essentially unlimited hydro generation possible thanks to the Great Lakes running through Ontario, there has been a huge push towards shifting generation to wind and solar as part of 'carbon emission reductions'. Prices have increased rapidly as a result and the Provincial Government now has to subsidize everyone's electricity bill in order to try and keep electricity affordable - the subsidies are funded by borrowing so build up huge debt burdens with little planning on how those will ever be repaid.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Ontario is mostly nuclear in installed capacity. “Hydro” has been a misnomer for a while. https://ieso.ca/ https://ieso.ca/ While we are definitely overpaying for wind and solar capacity, there isn’t enough of it to really justify the prices we pay (and arguably, solar performs best when demand is highest, so its cost-benefit isn’t as bad as many believe)

Mister_Snuggles 4y ago

In Alberta, I'm on a fixed-price contract for 8.69c/kWh. Add in the distribution, transmission, and local access fee charges and my all-in rate is actually 15.217c/kWh. But that's not all, there's also a 20.6c/day administrative charge. Of course, those are only the charges I've actually dug into. On top of this there is a "Transmission Charge Deferral Account True-Up Rider", "Transmission True-Up Rider", and "Balancing Pool Allocation Rider". Generally these changes are small enough that they're not worth the effort to dig into. There is also a $75/mo rebate applied to the bill, which is part of the government's affordability measures. Finally, on top of all of that, there is the 5% sales tax which is calculated on the total amount before that $75 rebate. I'm fortunate to be on a fixed-price contract. People who weren't had a portion of their power bill deferred and have to pay it back between April 2023 and December 2024. The catch is that current non-contract customers are stuck paying back their utility provider's deferral, which includes the deferral for customers who had charges deferred but since switched to a contract. This article[0] explains it better than I can. [0] https://globalnews.ca/news/9586632/alberta-regulated-rate-option-energy-bill-increase/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9586632/alberta-regulated-rate-op...