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There is just not enough lithium on earth. Unless cars weigh 500kg or we limit ourselves to electric bikes, we cannot make enough electric cars, and there is n

by jokoon 4y ago

There is just not enough lithium on earth. Unless cars weigh 500kg or we limit ourselves to electric bikes, we cannot make enough electric cars, and there is not enough carbon free power either to charge all those cars. The world would require so much nuclear energy, and it's not possible to have both wind turbines, solar panels and electric cars and electric storage when there is no sun or wind. I'm tired of techno-optimists who cannot understand we need degrowth BEFORE we can use new technologies if we really want to lower carbon emissions. There is so much greenwashing it's just not funny anymore. Why can't we understand that all those companies are trying to save themselves instead of delivering realistic, proven ways to reduce co2 emissions?

8jef 4y ago
Corporations can only save themselves through profit. Which means money hoarding through selling stuff in excess. Which means feeding the needs and/or perception of need through propaganda and marketing. Which works inside-out of the anxiety building infrastructure we call market economy. IRL, that means you can only successfully sell battery propelled moving machines if you have people buying them in excess, given enough people have been properly conditioned to consume them. Sometimes pre-existing conditioning leads to market breakthrough, some other times the need for profit call for conditioning fabrication, so-called consent manufacturing. Leading causes of eco-anxiety, which partly drives the market for such machines, comes from both sides. Wanna break the cycle? Be absolutely critical of each and every choice you make, considering that you are already fully conditioned on many aspects, and that there are no small choices in life.
zug_zug 4y ago
None of that actually matters. The point is the market will fix it. Not enough lithium? Then price will go up and we'll mine more (remember when people thought we'd run out of gas by 1980?). And as the price and demand goes up alternative battery designs will become increasingly created (I must have read several dozen articles about new battery types being researched). In a single hour, the amount of power from the sun that strikes the Earth is more than the entire world consumes in an year. The physics are there, if cars go electric and it drives the price of electricity up, it makes it much more cost-effective to build new solar panels (because the profit you make on them is high). Basically this is the magic of supply and demand -- when there isn't a monopoly it practically forces society toward a direction good for all. If we taxed externalities we'd already be heading there.
letitbeirie 4y ago
Not to mention the other metals that go into EV batteries - switching to 100% EV production means jaw-dropping increases in demand for copper, zinc, nickel, chromium, molybdenum, graphite, etc. Then there's the fact that Russia is a top 3 worldwide producer of half of that list.

by jokoon 4y ago

8jef 4y ago

Corporations can only save themselves through profit. Which means money hoarding through selling stuff in excess. Which means feeding the needs and/or perception of need through propaganda and marketing. Which works inside-out of the anxiety building infrastructure we call market economy. IRL, that means you can only successfully sell battery propelled moving machines if you have people buying them in excess, given enough people have been properly conditioned to consume them. Sometimes pre-existing conditioning leads to market breakthrough, some other times the need for profit call for conditioning fabrication, so-called consent manufacturing. Leading causes of eco-anxiety, which partly drives the market for such machines, comes from both sides. Wanna break the cycle? Be absolutely critical of each and every choice you make, considering that you are already fully conditioned on many aspects, and that there are no small choices in life.

zug_zug 4y ago

None of that actually matters. The point is the market will fix it. Not enough lithium? Then price will go up and we'll mine more (remember when people thought we'd run out of gas by 1980?). And as the price and demand goes up alternative battery designs will become increasingly created (I must have read several dozen articles about new battery types being researched). In a single hour, the amount of power from the sun that strikes the Earth is more than the entire world consumes in an year. The physics are there, if cars go electric and it drives the price of electricity up, it makes it much more cost-effective to build new solar panels (because the profit you make on them is high). Basically this is the magic of supply and demand -- when there isn't a monopoly it practically forces society toward a direction good for all. If we taxed externalities we'd already be heading there.

letitbeirie 4y ago

Not to mention the other metals that go into EV batteries - switching to 100% EV production means jaw-dropping increases in demand for copper, zinc, nickel, chromium, molybdenum, graphite, etc. Then there's the fact that Russia is a top 3 worldwide producer of half of that list.