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The anecdote about reading a 3000 page manual looking for exploits is something I realized a couple of years ago. Almost everything takes that level of dedicat

The anecdote about reading a 3000 page manual looking for exploits is something I realized a couple of years ago. Almost everything takes that level of dedication to be really good at, so there's no point in forcing yourself into something you hate. You have to invest an enormous amount of time and it doesn't get any easier. The whole "I go home every night after work, pour myself a glass of wine and read the case law" is an interesting point as well. I quickly realized that despite a lot of techies being very loud about WLB, that's not how it works with exceptional people. They are so interested in what they do that WLB is not really a thing. Or at the very least, it wasn't at some point in their life. --- To that effect, I think consistency is overrated for skill acquisition. 1) A couple of months of intense learning can progress you the same as a couple of years of passive learning (Sidenote: this is why I think YOE requirements are stupid, it's measured in passive time) 2) Skill progression is very non-linear in my experience. At some point a bunch of knowledge clicks together and you're suddenly way more effective despite not having gained much extra explicit knowledge (Though you may have gained tacit knowledge!) The main reason I'm trying to improve my consistency is actually for other people, not myself. I prefer to work in bursts, alternating between prospecting and intense work. But that makes it hard for other people to work with you because your output isn't predictable. Good article though :).

gregmac 4y ago
> I quickly realized that despite a lot of techies being very loud about WLB, that's not how it works with exceptional people. > They are so interested in what they do that WLB is not really a thing. (I'm assuming WLB = work-life balance) There's a really important distinction: a job asking someone to work crazy hours is very different from choosing to spend your personal time coding or learning technical things that may or may not be directly related to your $job. Some people have hobbies as Nd interests that closely mirror what they do for work. Learning about stuff that you're interested in anyway, but also applies to your job, is not a problem of balance. I've sometimes been so invested in something I'm working on that I'll pick it up late at night after everyone else is in bed. The balance part of this is when I do that, I'm going to take off early another day. That's a big difference from working extra hours or being told to work extra hours.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  I have a similar opinion as you, but there seem to be a lot of people who advocate for strict 9-5 and will not do anything outside of that which feels very unrealistic to me.
  - maxfurman 4y ago
    Some of us don't have an option. My daughter's school is open from 8 to 6; I can't possibly get to work any earlier or stay any later than those constraints allow.
    - taskforcegemini 4y ago
      poor girl, hope she at least likes it there
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
The problem is the mental fatigue / penalty as a consequence of not working in things you are interested in. I work @FAANG, for the stuff that I am actually interested in, I found myself casually hitting 60 hours per week without even thinking about it, plus M hours at home working on adjacent stuff / ideas. I worked here during my last semester of uni when I finished my thesis, and I was fine because I was doing genuinely interesting stuff. However, the mental exhaustion that comes with context switches or dealing with uninteresting and mundane stuff that still involve effort makes it very difficult for me to actually spend time writing code or doing something productive after / outside.
dandellion 4y ago
WLB: Work-life balance YOE: Years of experience Are you aware that the first time you use an acronym you're supposed to define it? They're not even used in the article. I'm not a native speaker so I'm used to have to stop to look up words, but it makes reading the comment much slower, especially when it's acronyms that are used so little they don't even show up in search results.
- tester756 4y ago
  >especially when it's acronyms that are used so little they don't even show up in search results. Hmm, I've binged and googled "YOE meaning" and both showed me site with those definitions as 2nd result Acronym Definition YOE Year of Entry YOE Years of Experience YOE Year of Exchange (Australia and Japan) YOE Youth Organic Environmental (UK) YOE Yeshivat Olam Echad YOE Youth Orchestral Experience (South Africa)
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  They're both common acronyms that have been around a long time. Both of them are also on the first page of results when I google for the acronyms, so I don't know where you were looking.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  > Are you aware that the first time you use an acronym you're supposed to define it? Tell this all the people who use abbreviations and acronyms in source code. Of course there is no place of "first time" use in code as one does not read code linearly. So abbreviations and acronyms in code are bad. Very bad. Most of the time you can't even look up the stuff someone made just up to save a few key strokes (which is irrelevant as there is code suggestion even in command line editors these days). Using abbreviations and acronyms in code makes it cryptic. Always. (The only legitimate place to use abbreviations and acronyms is imho some highly domain specific sub-language where all the domain experts know all the abbreviations and acronyms, and only those domain experts works on this code part.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
hyperthesis 4y ago
Actual interest also brings a quality of attention that is hard to compete with. OTOH seek and ye will find: immerse yourself in anything and you will find it interesting. Taking a step back, driven people are often unhappy, the latter causing the former. Family life etc is more deeply reaarding than "success".
bluedino 4y ago
It's like the Penn (or Teller) quote: Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect
dukeyukey 4y ago
> The whole "I go home every night after work, pour myself a glass of wine and read the case law" is an interesting point as well. I quickly realized that despite a lot of techies being very loud about WLB, that's not how it works with exceptional people. I think there's a _huge_ difference between working all the time because you've got a boss threatening to fire you if you don't versus because you're voluntarily learning to supercharge your career.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
This second point is under-appreciated. Many, if not most, skill based activities work like this. It's a weak mess for a long time then suddenly things start to click together and progress hockey sticks upward.

gregmac 4y ago

> I quickly realized that despite a lot of techies being very loud about WLB, that's not how it works with exceptional people. > They are so interested in what they do that WLB is not really a thing. (I'm assuming WLB = work-life balance) There's a really important distinction: a job asking someone to work crazy hours is very different from choosing to spend your personal time coding or learning technical things that may or may not be directly related to your $job. Some people have hobbies as Nd interests that closely mirror what they do for work. Learning about stuff that you're interested in anyway, but also applies to your job, is not a problem of balance. I've sometimes been so invested in something I'm working on that I'll pick it up late at night after everyone else is in bed. The balance part of this is when I do that, I'm going to take off early another day. That's a big difference from working extra hours or being told to work extra hours.

ZephyrBlu 4y ago
I have a similar opinion as you, but there seem to be a lot of people who advocate for strict 9-5 and will not do anything outside of that which feels very unrealistic to me.
- maxfurman 4y ago
  Some of us don't have an option. My daughter's school is open from 8 to 6; I can't possibly get to work any earlier or stay any later than those constraints allow.
  - taskforcegemini 4y ago
    poor girl, hope she at least likes it there

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

The problem is the mental fatigue / penalty as a consequence of not working in things you are interested in. I work @FAANG, for the stuff that I am actually interested in, I found myself casually hitting 60 hours per week without even thinking about it, plus M hours at home working on adjacent stuff / ideas. I worked here during my last semester of uni when I finished my thesis, and I was fine because I was doing genuinely interesting stuff. However, the mental exhaustion that comes with context switches or dealing with uninteresting and mundane stuff that still involve effort makes it very difficult for me to actually spend time writing code or doing something productive after / outside.

dandellion 4y ago

WLB: Work-life balance YOE: Years of experience Are you aware that the first time you use an acronym you're supposed to define it? They're not even used in the article. I'm not a native speaker so I'm used to have to stop to look up words, but it makes reading the comment much slower, especially when it's acronyms that are used so little they don't even show up in search results.

tester756 4y ago
>especially when it's acronyms that are used so little they don't even show up in search results. Hmm, I've binged and googled "YOE meaning" and both showed me site with those definitions as 2nd result Acronym Definition YOE Year of Entry YOE Years of Experience YOE Year of Exchange (Australia and Japan) YOE Youth Organic Environmental (UK) YOE Yeshivat Olam Echad YOE Youth Orchestral Experience (South Africa)
ZephyrBlu 4y ago
They're both common acronyms that have been around a long time. Both of them are also on the first page of results when I google for the acronyms, so I don't know where you were looking.
still_grokking 4y ago
> Are you aware that the first time you use an acronym you're supposed to define it? Tell this all the people who use abbreviations and acronyms in source code. Of course there is no place of "first time" use in code as one does not read code linearly. So abbreviations and acronyms in code are bad. Very bad. Most of the time you can't even look up the stuff someone made just up to save a few key strokes (which is irrelevant as there is code suggestion even in command line editors these days). Using abbreviations and acronyms in code makes it cryptic. Always. (The only legitimate place to use abbreviations and acronyms is imho some highly domain specific sub-language where all the domain experts know all the abbreviations and acronyms, and only those domain experts works on this code part.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

hyperthesis 4y ago

Actual interest also brings a quality of attention that is hard to compete with. OTOH seek and ye will find: immerse yourself in anything and you will find it interesting. Taking a step back, driven people are often unhappy, the latter causing the former. Family life etc is more deeply reaarding than "success".

bluedino 4y ago

It's like the Penn (or Teller) quote: Sometimes magic is just someone spending more time on something than anyone else might reasonably expect

dukeyukey 4y ago

> The whole "I go home every night after work, pour myself a glass of wine and read the case law" is an interesting point as well. I quickly realized that despite a lot of techies being very loud about WLB, that's not how it works with exceptional people. I think there's a _huge_ difference between working all the time because you've got a boss threatening to fire you if you don't versus because you're voluntarily learning to supercharge your career.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

This second point is under-appreciated. Many, if not most, skill based activities work like this. It's a weak mess for a long time then suddenly things start to click together and progress hockey sticks upward.