5 ms·

Can't is a strong word to use word for people who opt not to have a passport. I'd use that same logic to then say 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad since

Can't is a strong word to use word for people who opt not to have a passport. I'd use that same logic to then say 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad since they don't have a valid airline ticket in their possession. If your response is "well they can just get one!" then maybe you should rethink your argument.

Woeps 4y ago
Funnily enough you can go to most countries in the EU without a passport or a airline ticket if you're European. (you only need an ID card) But I digress and think you're right. Probably lots of people simple don't need/want a passport to travel outside of the US. Otherwise they would have had one
- RamblingCTO 4y ago
  you might not even need an ID practically, just legally. I've never been checked at borders or whatever in Europe. Not even when flying to Madeira or exiting/entering the Geneva airport, which is not EU.
Lio 4y ago
You're assuming you need a valid airline ticket to travel abroad in Europe, you don't. It's perfectly possible to travel abroad in Europe without any form of ticket. You can just drive, walk, cycle or sail and many people do regularly.
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  They’re explicitly not making that point. They’re in fact arguing that “can’t” is a weird choice of word for which the post they’re responding to has drawn an extremely arbitrary line. If anything, you and (at the moment) all of your siblings are helping explain just how arbitrary the line is.
- ta1243 4y ago
  Is it not possible to drive, walk, cycle or sail from the US to Canada or Mexico?
  - Lio 4y ago
    Not legally without a passport.
qwytw 4y ago
> 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad Some of them and I'm guessing more than 0.1% could just walk to another country by midnight (it's 5PM CET). And way more than that if they set off next morning.
- crote 4y ago
  In seven hours I can leave The Netherlands, cross Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Switzerland, and end up in the southern part of Germany. Give me two more hours and I can visit Liechtenstein, Austria, and Italy too.
  - qwytw 4y ago
    Probably not on foot though?
    - dukeyukey 4y ago
      No, although in 13 hours you could walk from Belgium through Luxembourg and into Germany. And you could add France without much bother too.
tialaramex 4y ago
> I'd use that same logic to then say 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad since they don't have a valid airline ticket in their possession. That doesn't make any sense, you can literally walk to foreign countries from most of Europe. Because of Schengen large parts of the EU you don't even need any paperwork, the rationale is that it was legal for you to be on that side of the border, you strolled over onto this side, chances are you're legal here too. If you're in a vehicle (which again, you can walk, it's not mandatory) the Schengen internal borders have no permanent checks. During COVID some of them were closed, and once in a while somebody might put up police stops - like they would for drunk driving (Americans surely have that right?) but in general in Schengen the country borders matter only slightly more than your US state borders do.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  Interestingly, paperless travel was the norm in Europe before 1914, too, though there was no Schengen. Happier times before the war tore down mutual trust among countries. Only the Russian empire and the Ottoman empire required passports from foreign visitors.
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  > That doesn't make any sense They know. That’s the point.
- rjsw 4y ago
  There can be customs checks at or near Schengen borders.
  - crote 4y ago
    Yes, just like two thirds of Americans can encounter a customs check on their daily commute because they live within 100 miles of a border. Schengen borders can have customs checks, but only temporarily in nature as a last resort in case of a serious threat to public policy or security, and in such a way as to impose the absolute minimum of restrictions possible. In practice Schengen borders are comparable to state borders in the US. Sure, they technically are borders, but in practice it is just a line drawn on a map. It is not uncommon for European armies to accidentally "invade" another country because they took a wrong turn during an exercise.
swarnie 4y ago
No i think its accurate. At the point of asking "Can you travel abroad?" the answer for 67% is "No" Also as a European i can walk to another country now before nightfall if you pack me some sandwiches and promise me a bed/pint when i arrive.

Woeps 4y ago

Funnily enough you can go to most countries in the EU without a passport or a airline ticket if you're European. (you only need an ID card) But I digress and think you're right. Probably lots of people simple don't need/want a passport to travel outside of the US. Otherwise they would have had one

RamblingCTO 4y ago
you might not even need an ID practically, just legally. I've never been checked at borders or whatever in Europe. Not even when flying to Madeira or exiting/entering the Geneva airport, which is not EU.

Lio 4y ago

You're assuming you need a valid airline ticket to travel abroad in Europe, you don't. It's perfectly possible to travel abroad in Europe without any form of ticket. You can just drive, walk, cycle or sail and many people do regularly.

Godel_unicode 4y ago
They’re explicitly not making that point. They’re in fact arguing that “can’t” is a weird choice of word for which the post they’re responding to has drawn an extremely arbitrary line. If anything, you and (at the moment) all of your siblings are helping explain just how arbitrary the line is.
ta1243 4y ago
Is it not possible to drive, walk, cycle or sail from the US to Canada or Mexico?
- Lio 4y ago
  Not legally without a passport.

qwytw 4y ago

> 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad Some of them and I'm guessing more than 0.1% could just walk to another country by midnight (it's 5PM CET). And way more than that if they set off next morning.

crote 4y ago
In seven hours I can leave The Netherlands, cross Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Switzerland, and end up in the southern part of Germany. Give me two more hours and I can visit Liechtenstein, Austria, and Italy too.
- qwytw 4y ago
  Probably not on foot though?
  - dukeyukey 4y ago
    No, although in 13 hours you could walk from Belgium through Luxembourg and into Germany. And you could add France without much bother too.

tialaramex 4y ago

> I'd use that same logic to then say 99.9% of Europeans can't travel abroad since they don't have a valid airline ticket in their possession. That doesn't make any sense, you can literally walk to foreign countries from most of Europe. Because of Schengen large parts of the EU you don't even need any paperwork, the rationale is that it was legal for you to be on that side of the border, you strolled over onto this side, chances are you're legal here too. If you're in a vehicle (which again, you can walk, it's not mandatory) the Schengen internal borders have no permanent checks. During COVID some of them were closed, and once in a while somebody might put up police stops - like they would for drunk driving (Americans surely have that right?) but in general in Schengen the country borders matter only slightly more than your US state borders do.

inglor_cz 4y ago
Interestingly, paperless travel was the norm in Europe before 1914, too, though there was no Schengen. Happier times before the war tore down mutual trust among countries. Only the Russian empire and the Ottoman empire required passports from foreign visitors.
Godel_unicode 4y ago
> That doesn't make any sense They know. That’s the point.
rjsw 4y ago
There can be customs checks at or near Schengen borders.
- crote 4y ago
  Yes, just like two thirds of Americans can encounter a customs check on their daily commute because they live within 100 miles of a border. Schengen borders can have customs checks, but only temporarily in nature as a last resort in case of a serious threat to public policy or security, and in such a way as to impose the absolute minimum of restrictions possible. In practice Schengen borders are comparable to state borders in the US. Sure, they technically are borders, but in practice it is just a line drawn on a map. It is not uncommon for European armies to accidentally "invade" another country because they took a wrong turn during an exercise.

swarnie 4y ago

No i think its accurate. At the point of asking "Can you travel abroad?" the answer for 67% is "No" Also as a European i can walk to another country now before nightfall if you pack me some sandwiches and promise me a bed/pint when i arrive.