6 ms·

Sure it's sustainable. Wear a jacket indoors. Won't kill you.

by squokko 4y ago

fredrikholm 4y ago
This is how (a lot of) students live in Glasgow; jackets indoors, heating when you have guests.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  I even lower heating when I have guests. Most of the time human bodies emit heat enough (N=1, for my lodging).
  - nottorp 4y ago
    Yeah, when i have 4+ people in my living room i have to lower down the heating or open a window.
amelius 4y ago
If you're not bothered by mold.
- dybber 4y ago
  Mold is due to inadequate ventilation, not low temperatures.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    But you cannot ventilate everything and mold comes with moisture.
    - whstl 4y ago
      If you can't crack the windows open a few times a day for a few minutes, then you got bigger problems that require proper solutions. In this case a proper dehumidifier is much more energy-efficient than keeping the heaters on.
      - hutzlibu 4y ago
        If you have a old house, with a basement and lots of stuff, than it is quite hard, that the ventilation reaches every corner. And those corners will get moldy. Oh and I don't have a house, nor a mold problem, but know enough people who do have, even though they do ventilate reasonable. Houses were build with the assumption, that they are heated. Now you can build new houses that are better designed - but you cannot magically adjust all the existing houses.
        jaclaz 4y ago
        >Houses were build with the assumption, that they are heated. Yes and no. It depends on the country and areas within it and it applies mainly to houses built in the last 60-70 years or so, maybe a few more years back in cities (for heating with radiators) before that time many, many houses were (poorly) heated by fireplaces and/or stoves. Besides, the permeability of the building materials was traditionally much better, and windows/doors were leaky, guaranteeing a much better ventilation. At least here in Italy the heating was a luxury until well after World War II, particularly in the country and in small vilages, anecdotally my family used to have a house in a small village in central Italy where the heating until the '70's was based on the devices that can be seen here (Italian): https://www.muet.it/storie/tutte-le-storie/item/il-riscaldamento-domestico.html https://www.muet.it/storie/tutte-le-storie/item/il-riscaldam... Particularly the kitchen and dining room was heated by the "stufa economica" that was also used to cook meals, the sitting room had a fireplace that heated also (a little) the bedroom behind it, and there was another large bedroom heated by a "stufa in terracotta", having a "prete" for each bed was needed. The house was anyway very, very cold, particularly at night/early morning.
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "It depends on the country and areas within it" Well, obviously it does, but I would think most houses in europe do have to be heated and were build in the last 60-70 years and those I was refering to. And before that, yes it was something like 2 bugs cancel each other out. Leaky windows prevents mold. (And in general only rich people could afford to heat the whole house)
  - pyrale 4y ago
    In most buildings, ventilating a room while preserving temp in winter involves heating the incoming air. So there's a sweet spot between heating and ventilating when it comes to avoiding humidity.
    - eecc 4y ago
      that's why you don't ventilate by opening windows wide open but with purpose built fans with a heat recovery device.
      - pyrale 4y ago
        That's the sense of the "most buildings" caveat: double flow ventilation systems are still uncommon in Europe, especially for housing.
  - rlpb 4y ago
    It's both. Humidity will more readily condense on lower temperature walls and windows resulting in mould. You need a combination of ventilation to lower the dewpoint and warmer walls so as they don't meet the dewpoint. Your choice of spelling of "mold" is consistent with your apparent lack of experience living in high humidity parts of the world :-)
    - squokko 4y ago
      Are you saying that the US is low humidity? Visit Florida.
  - refurb 4y ago
    If you keep your place at 15C and have a hot shower, you're going to need a hell of a lot of ventilation to keep the mold down.
    - netrus 4y ago
      Having a hot shower would be rather inconsistent with keeping a place at 15C, at least when the purpose is to save energy.
- brabel 4y ago
  I keep my house at 18C. It feels ok with a jacket or a blanket. There's no mold in sight anywhere. I guess you would need to have a humidity problem in your house to be affected by mold (my house has a central ventilation system which also keeps the humidity at bay - never above 40%).
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    A jacket at 18?!
    - kimi 4y ago
      If you are sitting all day in front of a computer, you need something. If you walk around, you'll be fine. I reduced the indoor temperature this year to see how it was, and kept ~18'C. I think I'll keep it anyway - less energy used, and it's totally doable. When I have someone over for dinner, I bring it back to 20-21'C.
      - Gasp0de 4y ago
        When I was sitting at my computer for long periods I'd just make a warm bottle with hot water to put my feet on and also drink hot tea. That was enough to be comfortable even at around 16°C.
      - goodpoint 4y ago
        Maybe we mean something different with "jacket". Don't people wear sweaters and thermal underwear at home? And with those you would be conformable at 15 to 17.
        brabel 4y ago
        English is not my first language. I suppose you would say "sweater" (but I said jacket because I prefer those garments with a zipper at the front: which I thought was always called "jacket" regardless of whether it's very light or thick).
- whstl 4y ago
  I suggest buying a hygrometer so you don't have to guess. In most places you'll quickly find out that you can bring humidity down to acceptable levels with a few minutes of "shock" ventilation. You can of course turn on the heating for a few minutes to bring humidity down a few percent-points more (entirely optional), but it absolutely doesn't have to be turned on all day long to have acceptable levels.
yourusername 4y ago
Not if you're young and healthy. Older people get less mobile and stiff when it's 15c inside though. And for health purposes it is suggested to not let the temperature get below 16c due to issues with moisture and mould.
- parkersweb 4y ago
  Wife teaches exercise classes for the older 50’s and this is a cyclical problem. High temps mean less movement is required to keep warm which leads to loss of muscle mass and lower mobility, which requires higher temps to keep warm and so on….
ExoticPearTree 4y ago
> Sure it's sustainable. Wear a jacket indoors. Won't kill you. Right. That's why we have technology and other advanced things, to live like cavemen used to. Not everybody lives at the right latitude to have 22 degrees Celsius indoors without additional heating in the winter.
- pyrale 4y ago
  I believe the idea from above poster is not that you should stop heating and "live like a caveman", but that many people would make great savings by wearing a wool sweater on top of their t-shirt and turning the temp down a couple degrees. As a case in point, I never spent a winter with 22°c indoors, usually it's around 18-19°c. That being said, as someone else said, controlling humidity is also a concern for the long-term viability of buildings.
  - ExoticPearTree 4y ago
    Anything under 21 during night for me makes it uncomfortable to sleep. At 22 for me it is the perfect temperature and in the winter I wear a normal clothes, too cold for t-shirts at 22.
    - hoorible 4y ago
      Jesus, I got uncomfortable just reading this. 21 at night would be insufferable for us (we’re in western Canada). 17 at night, 19.5 during the day is as hot as our house has ever been in winter; though with a new baby I suspect that might change by 0.5 for a while.
- theodric 4y ago
  I'm in Ireland. My ancient cottage gets down to about 13°C with every-other-day heating, even if it's 0° outside. Rarely colder. I do indeed just wear a jacket or a sweater, and I have a heated blanket on the couch. You get used to it and start to prefer it! If it were 22° in here I'd be in a T-shirt opening windows to let some heat out.
- adriancr 4y ago
Phelinofist 4y ago
I do that every winter - not because of the high prices for heating but because heating gets my skin dry. So I keep it around 18-19° and wear a jacket/warm clothes and drink hot tee and have a hot-water bottle. I also have a wearable blanket which is just super comfy.
- zamnos 4y ago
  A humidifier will combat the dryness if you'd rather be wearing only a t-shirt.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    Humidifiers are things that I will only run if I have to. I would much rather turn the heat down than run a unit that has to be refilled with de-ionized water constantly and blows moisture into whatever it is next to, and makes a huge mess if knocked over. It also has to be cleaned constantly because even with RO/DI water in it mold still grows.

Sure it's sustainable. Wear a jacket indoors. Won't kill you.

fredrikholm 4y ago

This is how (a lot of) students live in Glasgow; jackets indoors, heating when you have guests.

johnchristopher 4y ago
I even lower heating when I have guests. Most of the time human bodies emit heat enough (N=1, for my lodging).
- nottorp 4y ago
  Yeah, when i have 4+ people in my living room i have to lower down the heating or open a window.

amelius 4y ago

If you're not bothered by mold.

dybber 4y ago
Mold is due to inadequate ventilation, not low temperatures.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  But you cannot ventilate everything and mold comes with moisture.
  - whstl 4y ago
    If you can't crack the windows open a few times a day for a few minutes, then you got bigger problems that require proper solutions. In this case a proper dehumidifier is much more energy-efficient than keeping the heaters on.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      If you have a old house, with a basement and lots of stuff, than it is quite hard, that the ventilation reaches every corner. And those corners will get moldy. Oh and I don't have a house, nor a mold problem, but know enough people who do have, even though they do ventilate reasonable. Houses were build with the assumption, that they are heated. Now you can build new houses that are better designed - but you cannot magically adjust all the existing houses.
      - jaclaz 4y ago
        >Houses were build with the assumption, that they are heated. Yes and no. It depends on the country and areas within it and it applies mainly to houses built in the last 60-70 years or so, maybe a few more years back in cities (for heating with radiators) before that time many, many houses were (poorly) heated by fireplaces and/or stoves. Besides, the permeability of the building materials was traditionally much better, and windows/doors were leaky, guaranteeing a much better ventilation. At least here in Italy the heating was a luxury until well after World War II, particularly in the country and in small vilages, anecdotally my family used to have a house in a small village in central Italy where the heating until the '70's was based on the devices that can be seen here (Italian): https://www.muet.it/storie/tutte-le-storie/item/il-riscaldamento-domestico.html https://www.muet.it/storie/tutte-le-storie/item/il-riscaldam... Particularly the kitchen and dining room was heated by the "stufa economica" that was also used to cook meals, the sitting room had a fireplace that heated also (a little) the bedroom behind it, and there was another large bedroom heated by a "stufa in terracotta", having a "prete" for each bed was needed. The house was anyway very, very cold, particularly at night/early morning.
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        "It depends on the country and areas within it" Well, obviously it does, but I would think most houses in europe do have to be heated and were build in the last 60-70 years and those I was refering to. And before that, yes it was something like 2 bugs cancel each other out. Leaky windows prevents mold. (And in general only rich people could afford to heat the whole house)
- pyrale 4y ago
  In most buildings, ventilating a room while preserving temp in winter involves heating the incoming air. So there's a sweet spot between heating and ventilating when it comes to avoiding humidity.
  - eecc 4y ago
    that's why you don't ventilate by opening windows wide open but with purpose built fans with a heat recovery device.
    - pyrale 4y ago
      That's the sense of the "most buildings" caveat: double flow ventilation systems are still uncommon in Europe, especially for housing.
- rlpb 4y ago
  It's both. Humidity will more readily condense on lower temperature walls and windows resulting in mould. You need a combination of ventilation to lower the dewpoint and warmer walls so as they don't meet the dewpoint. Your choice of spelling of "mold" is consistent with your apparent lack of experience living in high humidity parts of the world :-)
  - squokko 4y ago
    Are you saying that the US is low humidity? Visit Florida.
- refurb 4y ago
  If you keep your place at 15C and have a hot shower, you're going to need a hell of a lot of ventilation to keep the mold down.
  - netrus 4y ago
    Having a hot shower would be rather inconsistent with keeping a place at 15C, at least when the purpose is to save energy.
brabel 4y ago
I keep my house at 18C. It feels ok with a jacket or a blanket. There's no mold in sight anywhere. I guess you would need to have a humidity problem in your house to be affected by mold (my house has a central ventilation system which also keeps the humidity at bay - never above 40%).
- goodpoint 4y ago
  A jacket at 18?!
  - kimi 4y ago
    If you are sitting all day in front of a computer, you need something. If you walk around, you'll be fine. I reduced the indoor temperature this year to see how it was, and kept ~18'C. I think I'll keep it anyway - less energy used, and it's totally doable. When I have someone over for dinner, I bring it back to 20-21'C.
    - Gasp0de 4y ago
      When I was sitting at my computer for long periods I'd just make a warm bottle with hot water to put my feet on and also drink hot tea. That was enough to be comfortable even at around 16°C.
    - goodpoint 4y ago
      Maybe we mean something different with "jacket". Don't people wear sweaters and thermal underwear at home? And with those you would be conformable at 15 to 17.
      - brabel 4y ago
        English is not my first language. I suppose you would say "sweater" (but I said jacket because I prefer those garments with a zipper at the front: which I thought was always called "jacket" regardless of whether it's very light or thick).
whstl 4y ago
I suggest buying a hygrometer so you don't have to guess. In most places you'll quickly find out that you can bring humidity down to acceptable levels with a few minutes of "shock" ventilation. You can of course turn on the heating for a few minutes to bring humidity down a few percent-points more (entirely optional), but it absolutely doesn't have to be turned on all day long to have acceptable levels.

yourusername 4y ago

Not if you're young and healthy. Older people get less mobile and stiff when it's 15c inside though. And for health purposes it is suggested to not let the temperature get below 16c due to issues with moisture and mould.

parkersweb 4y ago
Wife teaches exercise classes for the older 50’s and this is a cyclical problem. High temps mean less movement is required to keep warm which leads to loss of muscle mass and lower mobility, which requires higher temps to keep warm and so on….

ExoticPearTree 4y ago

> Sure it's sustainable. Wear a jacket indoors. Won't kill you. Right. That's why we have technology and other advanced things, to live like cavemen used to. Not everybody lives at the right latitude to have 22 degrees Celsius indoors without additional heating in the winter.

pyrale 4y ago
I believe the idea from above poster is not that you should stop heating and "live like a caveman", but that many people would make great savings by wearing a wool sweater on top of their t-shirt and turning the temp down a couple degrees. As a case in point, I never spent a winter with 22°c indoors, usually it's around 18-19°c. That being said, as someone else said, controlling humidity is also a concern for the long-term viability of buildings.
- ExoticPearTree 4y ago
  Anything under 21 during night for me makes it uncomfortable to sleep. At 22 for me it is the perfect temperature and in the winter I wear a normal clothes, too cold for t-shirts at 22.
  - hoorible 4y ago
    Jesus, I got uncomfortable just reading this. 21 at night would be insufferable for us (we’re in western Canada). 17 at night, 19.5 during the day is as hot as our house has ever been in winter; though with a new baby I suspect that might change by 0.5 for a while.
theodric 4y ago
I'm in Ireland. My ancient cottage gets down to about 13°C with every-other-day heating, even if it's 0° outside. Rarely colder. I do indeed just wear a jacket or a sweater, and I have a heated blanket on the couch. You get used to it and start to prefer it! If it were 22° in here I'd be in a T-shirt opening windows to let some heat out.
adriancr 4y ago

Phelinofist 4y ago

I do that every winter - not because of the high prices for heating but because heating gets my skin dry. So I keep it around 18-19° and wear a jacket/warm clothes and drink hot tee and have a hot-water bottle. I also have a wearable blanket which is just super comfy.

zamnos 4y ago
A humidifier will combat the dryness if you'd rather be wearing only a t-shirt.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  Humidifiers are things that I will only run if I have to. I would much rather turn the heat down than run a unit that has to be refilled with de-ionized water constantly and blows moisture into whatever it is next to, and makes a huge mess if knocked over. It also has to be cleaned constantly because even with RO/DI water in it mold still grows.