8 ms·

In 2019, Volkswagen decided to create a car OS. How’s that going?

96 points by laktak 4y ago

browningstreet 4y ago
I wanted a VW EV, but the years-long laments by reviewers about how slow and unresponsive their screen software was kept me from buying one. I’ve owned a half-dozen new VW/Audi products over the years. Whatever they’re doing with software still, the brands have almost no appeal to me any longer. Somehow Ford revamped Sync faster than VW has optimized their software.
- afpx 4y ago
  If they could replace the infotainment software and re-design all of the knobs and buttons, I would give my ID.4 a 9/10. That said, I have a X4, too, and I prefer driving the ID.4.
- dashundchen 4y ago
  With the 2022 update it's not as bad as some of the initial reviewers say, in the ID4 No problem with lag at all. The nav and trip planner is actually way better than Google maps IMO. It will direct you where to charge and for how long on longer trips. The lane guidance with the light strip in the dash and directions in the gauge cluster are extremely useful. It is annoying that media and climate controls are all on the touch screen. However I learned to just set it to auto and use the dedicated capacitive temp buttons to tweak a degree or two. For radio and music, I almost always use the buttons on the steering wheel. The driver assist features work very well on the highway, standard lane center and adaptive cruise. The mobile app sucks and only controls charging and remote climate. Overall a good practical car that's solidly put together. It's extremly quiet and has a shockingly good turn radius. My one complaint is that it's a bit bloated weight wise. VW is moving back to physical controls in their newest models, but North America seems to be destined to only receive big crossovers for now.
  - sklargh 4y ago
    I have a very early ID.4 and I’ve yet to receive any update since taking possession. I did just get a safety recall notice, which as I understand it, once fixed will enable further updates.
- ralala 4y ago
  I drive a 2023 ID.5 for 2 months and I have not faced many issues yet. Yes, the touch interface could be a bit more responsive, but I am overall very happy with the driving experience.
chadlavi 4y ago
Cars already have an operating system. It's a dash with dials you can look at to get info, a wheel you can use to steer, a set of pedals to control motion, a set of switches and buttons to control lights and such, and a center console with physical buttons that control extras like radio and heat/cooling. Not everything needs to be a computer!
- RamblingCTO 4y ago
  Cars already are quite heavy computers and have been for ages. It's not like a new development. They have control units, component control units, the radio, bla bla bla. Lot's of integrated stuff.
  - chadlavi 4y ago
    Of course. But driving a car doesn't need a user-facing OS. It shouldn't feel like using a computer to drive a car. Am I misunderstanding the car operating system they were working on? I thought it was to facilitate UI on touchscreen controls not just low-level systems.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - b112 4y ago
      The only user facing OS, should be a touch screen you can use with your phone, and use with steering wheel buttons. Everything else is sensless. Just get out of the way, let us use our phones or tablets.
    - konschubert 4y ago
      Exactly. There is a user-facing “infotainment” system including comfort functions and there is the safety-critical real-time embedded stuff. Volkswagen made the mistake of coupling these two.
  - jeffrallen 4y ago
    Cars are networks of small, light, robust, old computers made by lots of different suppliers who are not "car companies".
acd 4y ago
I think it would be smarter if cars ran open source. Open hardware, upgrade car cpu, gpu Open software. Linux dashboard. So instead if your car becoming like an old smartphone on wheels. With opensource It would become upgradeable. CarITX HDMI for car display.
- mike_hearn 4y ago
  They do. The article says VW are moving to Android, because that's where the app devs are. Android is open source.
  - b112 4y ago
    Maybe, but all the firmwares and libs will be binary only, so OSS is just a cloak around proprietariness. And you know VW won't want you turning off location tracking, or enabling some functionality you didn't pay for... So again, I doubt it will be as envisioned.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tadfisher 4y ago
    Not open hardware, not user-upgradable nor -modifiable. There's a difference between Open Source and Free Software, and Android is a poster child for the former.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Odds are they base off of freertos. Cars are unlikely to go full open source, as there are safety requirements and so security by obscurity is a part of the plan (not the main part, but a last ditch prevention). ThThey will open source less critical parts.
- kakoni 4y ago
  > Linux dashboard Well E3 1.1 (The VW "os" that's in id3/id4/id5) runs infotainment on top of linux.
TN1ck 4y ago
As someone not having dwelt in the automobile industry, I found this quote interesting: > The idea is still right, but of course, as you have seen, we've gone through the storming phase, a norming phase, now you know, having to deliver in the performing phase, but it's what you would expect I can guess what these phases are, but is that a common workflow in the industry? I never heard anyone to refer to these cycles in software development. For me it just sounded like a poor attempt to explain the delays with some buzzwords.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  They're normally used as a model of team dynamics. I've never heard it applied to any other system.
- rationalist 4y ago
  The complete cycle of phases are: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_de... I do not work in the car or software development industries; I only know it because they teach it in Boy Scouts of America leadership classes.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  German car companies (or for what it's worth, everyone but Tesla) and their suppliers still operate in waterfall development. They never learned the lessons the software industry did, because (like other brands like Sony or Nintendo that are known for good hardware but bad software), they deem themselves hardware companies at the core as they haven't realized software is ruling the world. Design something, ship it unchanged for three to four years, launch an incremental version, give another three to four years, ship a complete redesign. And that's not just valid for hardware but for software as well. Something like what Tesla does, changing stuff around whenever something is improving or they need to save money or whatever is completely antithetic to that. Part of the reason is how Tesla operates: they manufacture everything they can in-house, the "dealerships" (=glorified showrooms) and service stations are all owned by Tesla. In contrast, the trad-car industry has soooo many layers with independent entities: the car manufacturers, their local sub-division fiefdoms, suppliers who are locked in with year-long contracts, brand-owned dealerships and service stations, independent dealerships and service stations... changes there take ages to be communicated across the field and become implemented. Tesla management, meanwhile, can just shoot off a weekly newsletter and everyone relevant now knows that starting from production date X there are only cameras but no ultrasound parking distance sensors, no matter the consequences.
jsnell 4y ago
What a strange puff piece, given how cynical and snarky the Ars house style is these days. It's clear that this project is a mess, but most of the article is just some exec giving jargony but information-free quotes to make it sound like everything is going just great.
- greggsy 4y ago
  I feel like Ars carried the automotive tech torch from Jalopnik when they slid into obscurity after Gawker imploded. The reporting has always been mediocre - there is so much interesting tech happening across the industry, yet they choose to report on puff pieces like this, or paid-for promos.
  - sklargh 4y ago
    SavageGeese is a ray of light here.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Zigurd 4y ago
I believe Google is playing the long game in cars software. Car companies, and the incumbent car infotainment suppliers still believe they know what drivers want, when, in reality, almost all car infotainment is much worse than Android-based software. There is too much capability and polished UI in smartphone-derived platforms. There are too many apps, especially media apps, that users want. Google maps and navigation is the "killer app" that no other car software maker can surpass. Eventually, there will be two, maybe three holdouts who can justify vertical integration and everything else will be based on Android Automotive (not Auto!). In the slipstream of Android Automotive will be Waymo's autonomous driving software, plus the Waymo ride hailing UX. That, also, will become a fallback for everyone doing robotaxis who doesn't benchmark better than Waymo.
- IE6 4y ago
  > I believe Google is playing the long game in cars software. Car companies, and the incumbent car infotainment suppliers still believe they know what drivers want, when, in reality, almost all car infotainment is much worse than Android-based software. It reminds me of early cellphones. Functionally from an OS perspective there was little/no difference between a "flagship" device like the Motorola Razr and the free phone you could get at the time. Verizon essentially neutered any potential for differentiation and they thought they knew the experience and features users wanted. Apple basically came along and said no. It's pretty wild to me how bad car UI/UX is still especially given how expensive they are.
jononomo 4y ago
I wish cars would emphasize physical knobs and switches and buttons more. I absolutely hate controlling my AC in a car via a touch screen. Soon you'll have to open a menu and select "brake" and then move a slider if you want the car to slow down.
- dazc 4y ago
  Please don't give them ideas.
version_five 4y ago
If the two 2023 VW models I've driven are any indication, it's an abject failure. It might be partially because I haven't seen what a "new" car looks like in a while, but I found everything horrible. Both the actual touch menu navigation as well as the applications - possibly the worlds most useless distance sensing / park assistance technology who's only mode of operation is to been insanely at you when you're near anything. I've also had it just crash and had to look up how to reset by holding the power button for a long time. I think this stuff may be par for the course on new cars now, but VW in particular is shit. I would add that I don't know what the design goals of the OS are. It appears that in-car OSs generally are for the utility of the car company, whether stealing personal information or upselling, nagging, or preventing you from doing things you'd like with your car. So maybe it's going great on those fronts.
- gambiting 4y ago
  Honestly, I have multiple friends who were Volkswagen fanatics for life, normal folk who would only consider a VW product for their next car, all of them said they will look elsewhere after test driving the latest generation of cars. The touch interface is actually insane. It's honestly designed by someone whose goal is "try to see what's the worst interface you can create and still sell a car". The capacitive window controls deserve some kind of award on their own. It's awful awful awful 1000x. A friend of mine is literally in the process of selling his nearly new Golf Mk8 over this shit - he said he thought he would get used to it, but it leads to misclicks and accidental activations of functions literally every day. He has the entire system crashing at least once a week usually when driving. And multiple times the entire system just switched from miles to km on its own without any input. He reported it to VW who of course said they can't reproduce the issue. It's unusable. I wish reviewers would use extremely harsh words about it - it doesn't matter how well the car drives or how much space it has if the interfaces inside it are literally unusable.
  - tass 4y ago
    Great time to be a second hand GTI mk 7 seller. I’m a big fan of Mazda’s interface, especially with their recent commitment to maintain tactile controls.
karaterobot 4y ago
> Called E3 for end-to-end architecture Not clear how the name applies. Does this, by any chance, make sense in German?
- zweifuss 4y ago
  E³ bedeutete im besten Denglisch End-to-End-Elektronik-Architektur. So it's end-to-end electronics architecture in German.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mdmglr 4y ago
Is E3 an OS or is it middleware between an RTOS and Android? I’m a bit confused. If I was developing a platform I would have several machines in car For each major function: driver assistance drive control (drive by wire, body control, battery mgmt, motors, signaling) safety (belts and airbags) infotainment/non-critical displays critical displays (driver speedometer, etc.) Seems to me like using a COTS RTOS is best and then build up from there.
- Matthias247 4y ago
  I have no personal knowledge about VW. But industry standard is using an autosar based RTOS for all real time controller that you mention. Infotainment is mostly android or an OEMs private OS (which mostly means Linux with custom developed apps). Maybe some rare leftovers with QNX or WinCE. A „headunit“ might consist of multiple CPUs, real-time and non real-time ones. I doubt anyone would do a drivetrain controller on Linux or an infotainment system based on a RTOS.
sklargh 4y ago
Leasing an ID.4. It is a good car* imprisoned within an utterly abysmal user interface. I want to add one new data point to this conversation, the parking brake button, one of the four tactile buttons available, will actuate past detent and click on occasion without engaging the parking brake. This is incredibly dangerous and must be addressed (VW staff on HN please find a way). Further, repeated lamentations. Any basic task, changing fan speed, turning on heated seats, looking at the battery charge level is dangerous in motion. The latency is absurd - mid-10s iPad on a 105 degree day under strain bad. It’s also notable that the design of the touchscreen’s surrounds is poor. There is nowhere to place your hand so you’re groping around in the air without any tactile reference. It’s just really bad, I’ve never successfully activated the defogger without turning on something else by mistake. I have another VW family station wagon where all of the controls are physical, including a nice overhead switch panel. It feels special and is easier to use in all regards. It is a charming and thoughtful piece of human-machine interface design. I won’t abandon electric cars but I will pay close attention to physical button availability going forward. *the brakes do not provide the authority I expect from a VW
- winrid 4y ago
  The parking brake issue also occurs on my Colorado. It will click and then pop back up, not engaged. VERY dangerous when parking with a trailer...
  - sklargh 4y ago
    Know I’m in the minority, but I think a separate parking brake button that arrests the car is a really important safety feature. In the other vehicle I can pull a switch and know that the car will not move.
    - winrid 4y ago
      Nonsense. The friction material in the electric parking breaks can wear out too. In the truck it is actually it's own button. It's a foot pedal.
glintik 4y ago
VW has awful software processes. ID3 cars parked for half a year before VW guys were able to fix major bugs is a good sign to buy another brand.
nr2x 4y ago
Working with German engineers from Santa Clara time zone gives you only a few hours of overlap per day. That’s undoubtedly part of the problem here. There’s limits to how distributed a team can be. Source: two years working from Bay Area with German and Swiss engineers.
sudders 4y ago
I was in the market for a new car in 2021… and tested a whole bunch of EVs. All my previous cars were VW's. But the abysmal software was _the_ reason I didn't go with VW (or any of the other brands) this time. Skoda Enyaq was the best of the bunch, the UI was fairly intuitive but still slow and unresponsive. VW Id4 was over the line bad, but the worst of them all, it still annoys me to this day, was Audi Q4. For a car with that price point, it was like the engineers made a sport of how bad they can make a UI. A pop-up saying something about privacy every time you start the car. Very regularly a pop-up saying "no data connection, while you could see LTE in the background, and everything appeared to just function normally. And many, many more The only usable part is the fact that you can use Android auto/carplay. In the end I went with a Polestar, and honestly I am very pleased. Would recommend it to anyone.
based2 4y ago
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/careers/about-us/mercedes-benz-operating-system/ https://group.mercedes-benz.com/careers/about-us/mercedes-be...

96 points by laktak 4y ago

I wanted a VW EV, but the years-long laments by reviewers about how slow and unresponsive their screen software was kept me from buying one. I’ve owned a half-dozen new VW/Audi products over the years. Whatever they’re doing with software still, the brands have almost no appeal to me any longer. Somehow Ford revamped Sync faster than VW has optimized their software.

afpx 4y ago
If they could replace the infotainment software and re-design all of the knobs and buttons, I would give my ID.4 a 9/10. That said, I have a X4, too, and I prefer driving the ID.4.
dashundchen 4y ago
With the 2022 update it's not as bad as some of the initial reviewers say, in the ID4 No problem with lag at all. The nav and trip planner is actually way better than Google maps IMO. It will direct you where to charge and for how long on longer trips. The lane guidance with the light strip in the dash and directions in the gauge cluster are extremely useful. It is annoying that media and climate controls are all on the touch screen. However I learned to just set it to auto and use the dedicated capacitive temp buttons to tweak a degree or two. For radio and music, I almost always use the buttons on the steering wheel. The driver assist features work very well on the highway, standard lane center and adaptive cruise. The mobile app sucks and only controls charging and remote climate. Overall a good practical car that's solidly put together. It's extremly quiet and has a shockingly good turn radius. My one complaint is that it's a bit bloated weight wise. VW is moving back to physical controls in their newest models, but North America seems to be destined to only receive big crossovers for now.
- sklargh 4y ago
  I have a very early ID.4 and I’ve yet to receive any update since taking possession. I did just get a safety recall notice, which as I understand it, once fixed will enable further updates.
ralala 4y ago
I drive a 2023 ID.5 for 2 months and I have not faced many issues yet. Yes, the touch interface could be a bit more responsive, but I am overall very happy with the driving experience.

chadlavi 4y ago

Cars already have an operating system. It's a dash with dials you can look at to get info, a wheel you can use to steer, a set of pedals to control motion, a set of switches and buttons to control lights and such, and a center console with physical buttons that control extras like radio and heat/cooling. Not everything needs to be a computer!

RamblingCTO 4y ago
Cars already are quite heavy computers and have been for ages. It's not like a new development. They have control units, component control units, the radio, bla bla bla. Lot's of integrated stuff.
- chadlavi 4y ago
  Of course. But driving a car doesn't need a user-facing OS. It shouldn't feel like using a computer to drive a car. Am I misunderstanding the car operating system they were working on? I thought it was to facilitate UI on touchscreen controls not just low-level systems.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - b112 4y ago
    The only user facing OS, should be a touch screen you can use with your phone, and use with steering wheel buttons. Everything else is sensless. Just get out of the way, let us use our phones or tablets.
  - konschubert 4y ago
    Exactly. There is a user-facing “infotainment” system including comfort functions and there is the safety-critical real-time embedded stuff. Volkswagen made the mistake of coupling these two.
- jeffrallen 4y ago
  Cars are networks of small, light, robust, old computers made by lots of different suppliers who are not "car companies".

acd 4y ago

I think it would be smarter if cars ran open source. Open hardware, upgrade car cpu, gpu Open software. Linux dashboard. So instead if your car becoming like an old smartphone on wheels. With opensource It would become upgradeable. CarITX HDMI for car display.

mike_hearn 4y ago
They do. The article says VW are moving to Android, because that's where the app devs are. Android is open source.
- b112 4y ago
  Maybe, but all the firmwares and libs will be binary only, so OSS is just a cloak around proprietariness. And you know VW won't want you turning off location tracking, or enabling some functionality you didn't pay for... So again, I doubt it will be as envisioned.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tadfisher 4y ago
  Not open hardware, not user-upgradable nor -modifiable. There's a difference between Open Source and Free Software, and Android is a poster child for the former.
bluGill 4y ago
Odds are they base off of freertos. Cars are unlikely to go full open source, as there are safety requirements and so security by obscurity is a part of the plan (not the main part, but a last ditch prevention). ThThey will open source less critical parts.
kakoni 4y ago
> Linux dashboard Well E3 1.1 (The VW "os" that's in id3/id4/id5) runs infotainment on top of linux.

TN1ck 4y ago

As someone not having dwelt in the automobile industry, I found this quote interesting: > The idea is still right, but of course, as you have seen, we've gone through the storming phase, a norming phase, now you know, having to deliver in the performing phase, but it's what you would expect I can guess what these phases are, but is that a common workflow in the industry? I never heard anyone to refer to these cycles in software development. For me it just sounded like a poor attempt to explain the delays with some buzzwords.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
They're normally used as a model of team dynamics. I've never heard it applied to any other system.
rationalist 4y ago
The complete cycle of phases are: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_de... I do not work in the car or software development industries; I only know it because they teach it in Boy Scouts of America leadership classes.
mschuster91 4y ago
German car companies (or for what it's worth, everyone but Tesla) and their suppliers still operate in waterfall development. They never learned the lessons the software industry did, because (like other brands like Sony or Nintendo that are known for good hardware but bad software), they deem themselves hardware companies at the core as they haven't realized software is ruling the world. Design something, ship it unchanged for three to four years, launch an incremental version, give another three to four years, ship a complete redesign. And that's not just valid for hardware but for software as well. Something like what Tesla does, changing stuff around whenever something is improving or they need to save money or whatever is completely antithetic to that. Part of the reason is how Tesla operates: they manufacture everything they can in-house, the "dealerships" (=glorified showrooms) and service stations are all owned by Tesla. In contrast, the trad-car industry has soooo many layers with independent entities: the car manufacturers, their local sub-division fiefdoms, suppliers who are locked in with year-long contracts, brand-owned dealerships and service stations, independent dealerships and service stations... changes there take ages to be communicated across the field and become implemented. Tesla management, meanwhile, can just shoot off a weekly newsletter and everyone relevant now knows that starting from production date X there are only cameras but no ultrasound parking distance sensors, no matter the consequences.

jsnell 4y ago

What a strange puff piece, given how cynical and snarky the Ars house style is these days. It's clear that this project is a mess, but most of the article is just some exec giving jargony but information-free quotes to make it sound like everything is going just great.

greggsy 4y ago
I feel like Ars carried the automotive tech torch from Jalopnik when they slid into obscurity after Gawker imploded. The reporting has always been mediocre - there is so much interesting tech happening across the industry, yet they choose to report on puff pieces like this, or paid-for promos.
- sklargh 4y ago
  SavageGeese is a ray of light here.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Zigurd 4y ago

I believe Google is playing the long game in cars software. Car companies, and the incumbent car infotainment suppliers still believe they know what drivers want, when, in reality, almost all car infotainment is much worse than Android-based software. There is too much capability and polished UI in smartphone-derived platforms. There are too many apps, especially media apps, that users want. Google maps and navigation is the "killer app" that no other car software maker can surpass. Eventually, there will be two, maybe three holdouts who can justify vertical integration and everything else will be based on Android Automotive (not Auto!). In the slipstream of Android Automotive will be Waymo's autonomous driving software, plus the Waymo ride hailing UX. That, also, will become a fallback for everyone doing robotaxis who doesn't benchmark better than Waymo.

IE6 4y ago
> I believe Google is playing the long game in cars software. Car companies, and the incumbent car infotainment suppliers still believe they know what drivers want, when, in reality, almost all car infotainment is much worse than Android-based software. It reminds me of early cellphones. Functionally from an OS perspective there was little/no difference between a "flagship" device like the Motorola Razr and the free phone you could get at the time. Verizon essentially neutered any potential for differentiation and they thought they knew the experience and features users wanted. Apple basically came along and said no. It's pretty wild to me how bad car UI/UX is still especially given how expensive they are.

jononomo 4y ago

I wish cars would emphasize physical knobs and switches and buttons more. I absolutely hate controlling my AC in a car via a touch screen. Soon you'll have to open a menu and select "brake" and then move a slider if you want the car to slow down.

dazc 4y ago
Please don't give them ideas.

version_five 4y ago

If the two 2023 VW models I've driven are any indication, it's an abject failure. It might be partially because I haven't seen what a "new" car looks like in a while, but I found everything horrible. Both the actual touch menu navigation as well as the applications - possibly the worlds most useless distance sensing / park assistance technology who's only mode of operation is to been insanely at you when you're near anything. I've also had it just crash and had to look up how to reset by holding the power button for a long time. I think this stuff may be par for the course on new cars now, but VW in particular is shit. I would add that I don't know what the design goals of the OS are. It appears that in-car OSs generally are for the utility of the car company, whether stealing personal information or upselling, nagging, or preventing you from doing things you'd like with your car. So maybe it's going great on those fronts.

gambiting 4y ago
Honestly, I have multiple friends who were Volkswagen fanatics for life, normal folk who would only consider a VW product for their next car, all of them said they will look elsewhere after test driving the latest generation of cars. The touch interface is actually insane. It's honestly designed by someone whose goal is "try to see what's the worst interface you can create and still sell a car". The capacitive window controls deserve some kind of award on their own. It's awful awful awful 1000x. A friend of mine is literally in the process of selling his nearly new Golf Mk8 over this shit - he said he thought he would get used to it, but it leads to misclicks and accidental activations of functions literally every day. He has the entire system crashing at least once a week usually when driving. And multiple times the entire system just switched from miles to km on its own without any input. He reported it to VW who of course said they can't reproduce the issue. It's unusable. I wish reviewers would use extremely harsh words about it - it doesn't matter how well the car drives or how much space it has if the interfaces inside it are literally unusable.
- tass 4y ago
  Great time to be a second hand GTI mk 7 seller. I’m a big fan of Mazda’s interface, especially with their recent commitment to maintain tactile controls.

karaterobot 4y ago

> Called E3 for end-to-end architecture Not clear how the name applies. Does this, by any chance, make sense in German?

zweifuss 4y ago
E³ bedeutete im besten Denglisch End-to-End-Elektronik-Architektur. So it's end-to-end electronics architecture in German.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

mdmglr 4y ago

Is E3 an OS or is it middleware between an RTOS and Android? I’m a bit confused. If I was developing a platform I would have several machines in car For each major function: driver assistance drive control (drive by wire, body control, battery mgmt, motors, signaling) safety (belts and airbags) infotainment/non-critical displays critical displays (driver speedometer, etc.) Seems to me like using a COTS RTOS is best and then build up from there.

Matthias247 4y ago
I have no personal knowledge about VW. But industry standard is using an autosar based RTOS for all real time controller that you mention. Infotainment is mostly android or an OEMs private OS (which mostly means Linux with custom developed apps). Maybe some rare leftovers with QNX or WinCE. A „headunit“ might consist of multiple CPUs, real-time and non real-time ones. I doubt anyone would do a drivetrain controller on Linux or an infotainment system based on a RTOS.

sklargh 4y ago

Leasing an ID.4. It is a good car* imprisoned within an utterly abysmal user interface. I want to add one new data point to this conversation, the parking brake button, one of the four tactile buttons available, will actuate past detent and click on occasion without engaging the parking brake. This is incredibly dangerous and must be addressed (VW staff on HN please find a way). Further, repeated lamentations. Any basic task, changing fan speed, turning on heated seats, looking at the battery charge level is dangerous in motion. The latency is absurd - mid-10s iPad on a 105 degree day under strain bad. It’s also notable that the design of the touchscreen’s surrounds is poor. There is nowhere to place your hand so you’re groping around in the air without any tactile reference. It’s just really bad, I’ve never successfully activated the defogger without turning on something else by mistake. I have another VW family station wagon where all of the controls are physical, including a nice overhead switch panel. It feels special and is easier to use in all regards. It is a charming and thoughtful piece of human-machine interface design. I won’t abandon electric cars but I will pay close attention to physical button availability going forward. *the brakes do not provide the authority I expect from a VW

winrid 4y ago
The parking brake issue also occurs on my Colorado. It will click and then pop back up, not engaged. VERY dangerous when parking with a trailer...
- sklargh 4y ago
  Know I’m in the minority, but I think a separate parking brake button that arrests the car is a really important safety feature. In the other vehicle I can pull a switch and know that the car will not move.
  - winrid 4y ago
    Nonsense. The friction material in the electric parking breaks can wear out too. In the truck it is actually it's own button. It's a foot pedal.

glintik 4y ago

VW has awful software processes. ID3 cars parked for half a year before VW guys were able to fix major bugs is a good sign to buy another brand.

nr2x 4y ago

Working with German engineers from Santa Clara time zone gives you only a few hours of overlap per day. That’s undoubtedly part of the problem here. There’s limits to how distributed a team can be. Source: two years working from Bay Area with German and Swiss engineers.

sudders 4y ago

I was in the market for a new car in 2021… and tested a whole bunch of EVs. All my previous cars were VW's. But the abysmal software was _the_ reason I didn't go with VW (or any of the other brands) this time. Skoda Enyaq was the best of the bunch, the UI was fairly intuitive but still slow and unresponsive. VW Id4 was over the line bad, but the worst of them all, it still annoys me to this day, was Audi Q4. For a car with that price point, it was like the engineers made a sport of how bad they can make a UI. A pop-up saying something about privacy every time you start the car. Very regularly a pop-up saying "no data connection, while you could see LTE in the background, and everything appeared to just function normally. And many, many more The only usable part is the fact that you can use Android auto/carplay. In the end I went with a Polestar, and honestly I am very pleased. Would recommend it to anyone.

based2 4y ago

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/careers/about-us/mercedes-benz-operating-system/ https://group.mercedes-benz.com/careers/about-us/mercedes-be...