4 ms·

The word "thought" means something. When you use it to describe ChatGPT, you have in fact argued "there's no fundamental difference between humans and LLMs."

danenania 4y ago
That presupposes that the only thought that exists or can exist is human thought. You can define it that way if you like, but it’s not the only definition.
- staticman2 4y ago
  I'm not saying the only thought that exists is human thought. (I believe animals can think). I'm saying using a word invented to describe animals behavior, "thought" to describe a large language model has no discernible meaning other than you think it works like an animal brain. If you think it's an open question whether it works like an animal, you should find a better word than "thought".
  - danenania 4y ago
    A CPU "runs". A disk "seeks". An OS stores data in "memory". Re-purposing terms to describe new concepts is routine in the evolution of language, and (non-human, non-biological) "thought" is a perfectly apt way to describe what we can observe in the output of massive LLMs like GPT.
    - staticman2 4y ago
      A CPU "runs" but nobody debates whether a CPU has legs and leaps around. A OS stores "memories" but nobody argues whether the OS fondly recalls the day their son was born. When people are debating how the LLM works and you call what the LLM does "thought" it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you believe the human brain works essentially the same as an LLM. I just asked ChatGPT 4.0 and here's my question and the response, in the interest of full disclosure I edited out the part that I thought wasn't relevant so as not to bore: "...if I call your processes "thoughts" is that the correct term? If not what term should I use?" "If you want to describe the processes of an AI language model like me, it's more accurate to use terms such as "information processing," "pattern recognition," or "data-driven predictions." While these terms don't fully capture the complexity of the underlying algorithms, they are more appropriate than "thoughts," which implies consciousness and self-awareness that AI models like me do not possess. Using the term "thoughts" might be misleading, as it could imply that the AI has a subjective experience or a sense of understanding, which is not the case. Instead, I rely on advanced algorithms to generate responses based on the patterns and associations learned from the data during my training." So ChatGPT doesn't state you used the correct term. I genuinely wonder if you think ChatGPT is consciouss and self-aware and you used a word that implied that intentionally, or if you just like how the word "thought" sounds and are indifferent to what people think you are implying.
      - danenania 4y ago
        I don’t think it’s conscious. Though at some point in the future, it will likely be hard to say that with total certainty. Perhaps you’re right that the term thought has too much baggage. I’m just saying that if you look at it at naively, it’s engaging in forms of abstractions, reasoning, world modeling, invention, and so on that seem a lot like “thought”. If a human told you they were doing those things, you’d say they were thinking, right? I agree it’s not thought in exactly the way that we are used to using the word, but I think it can be classified as a type of thought.
giardini 4y ago
The parent was very careful to distinguish "human thought" from "non-human thought".
- staticman2 4y ago
  > The parent was very careful to distinguish "human thought" from "non-human thought". Yes, I noticed. Putting "non-human" in front of "thought" doesn't help. I doubt parent uses the word "thought" to describe how a thermostat, calculator, or "Hello world" program works. Using it to describe ChatGPT has no discernable semantic meaning other than OP believes ChatGPT works like an animal brain.

danenania 4y ago

That presupposes that the only thought that exists or can exist is human thought. You can define it that way if you like, but it’s not the only definition.

staticman2 4y ago
I'm not saying the only thought that exists is human thought. (I believe animals can think). I'm saying using a word invented to describe animals behavior, "thought" to describe a large language model has no discernible meaning other than you think it works like an animal brain. If you think it's an open question whether it works like an animal, you should find a better word than "thought".
- danenania 4y ago
  A CPU "runs". A disk "seeks". An OS stores data in "memory". Re-purposing terms to describe new concepts is routine in the evolution of language, and (non-human, non-biological) "thought" is a perfectly apt way to describe what we can observe in the output of massive LLMs like GPT.
  - staticman2 4y ago
    A CPU "runs" but nobody debates whether a CPU has legs and leaps around. A OS stores "memories" but nobody argues whether the OS fondly recalls the day their son was born. When people are debating how the LLM works and you call what the LLM does "thought" it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you believe the human brain works essentially the same as an LLM. I just asked ChatGPT 4.0 and here's my question and the response, in the interest of full disclosure I edited out the part that I thought wasn't relevant so as not to bore: "...if I call your processes "thoughts" is that the correct term? If not what term should I use?" "If you want to describe the processes of an AI language model like me, it's more accurate to use terms such as "information processing," "pattern recognition," or "data-driven predictions." While these terms don't fully capture the complexity of the underlying algorithms, they are more appropriate than "thoughts," which implies consciousness and self-awareness that AI models like me do not possess. Using the term "thoughts" might be misleading, as it could imply that the AI has a subjective experience or a sense of understanding, which is not the case. Instead, I rely on advanced algorithms to generate responses based on the patterns and associations learned from the data during my training." So ChatGPT doesn't state you used the correct term. I genuinely wonder if you think ChatGPT is consciouss and self-aware and you used a word that implied that intentionally, or if you just like how the word "thought" sounds and are indifferent to what people think you are implying.
    - danenania 4y ago
      I don’t think it’s conscious. Though at some point in the future, it will likely be hard to say that with total certainty. Perhaps you’re right that the term thought has too much baggage. I’m just saying that if you look at it at naively, it’s engaging in forms of abstractions, reasoning, world modeling, invention, and so on that seem a lot like “thought”. If a human told you they were doing those things, you’d say they were thinking, right? I agree it’s not thought in exactly the way that we are used to using the word, but I think it can be classified as a type of thought.

giardini 4y ago

The parent was very careful to distinguish "human thought" from "non-human thought".

staticman2 4y ago
> The parent was very careful to distinguish "human thought" from "non-human thought". Yes, I noticed. Putting "non-human" in front of "thought" doesn't help. I doubt parent uses the word "thought" to describe how a thermostat, calculator, or "Hello world" program works. Using it to describe ChatGPT has no discernable semantic meaning other than OP believes ChatGPT works like an animal brain.